Tiglath

I see, YOU CAN"T quote any of my insults. Called your bluff and found you holding your dick. No surprise.

Then you try to redefine what an insult is in order to feel insulted. Excellent.

And finally you lie to readers again suggesting that I called someone delusional or idiots when in fact I did not.

The quote you produce very clearly insults no person. It merely criticize a BEHAVIOR, not people. Which is the right thing to do. People's arguments are game and can be demolished if you can, but people themselves must be respected just as the way you expect to be. Learn the difference.

Tiglath

And where can you look at those soothing odds for your specific ride, Google, dictionary, where?

Tiglath

Well I feel throroughly insulted now, and I thank you kindly from the bottom of the scar tissue that will hopefully blunt the next one.

mconlonx

Those who post insults who are unable to see their posted insult for what it is are generally idiots.

mconlonx

This guy should probably be wearing a helmet...

wphamilton

I've used the household transportation survey and cross-check against other sources to estimate bicycle trips and mileage, then overall injury and fatality stats to piece together a very approximate probability of accident per mile and per trip. There are tabulations of accidents summarized by most of the factors that typically describe a commute, and by general categories of rider (age, sex, etc) by which you may arrive at a little better approximation.

You'll need to be willing to do a bit of research, and then to apply sound statistical reasoning. And be forewarned that much of the data is incomplete or dubious - one needs to evaluate and assign confidence intervals to the any calculations.

Or, alternatively, the use of good judgement based on knowledge of the conditions and danger. But I prefer math.

Tiglath

The right not to wear a helmet is not sufficient. If someone wants to take risk by deliberately neglecting to use commonly used and available protection, and he is wrong and ends up with a head injury. Sad and regrettable as it is, no part of the bill involved in his recovery or funeral should be passed to others in any way.

Right yes, but with according responsibility.

Tiglath

Whatever. I look forward to not talking to you again.

CarinusMalmari

This, basically

3alarmer 

...I find this vaguely insulting.

wphamilton

I'd bet that many of the drivers we encounter would use that exact same argument to force us off the road. It's wrong for them also, because it's none of their business and this "costs me money" argument dissipates into wisps whenever you examine it closely.

wphamilton

And well you should, considering where it's posted. At least you know that I'm not insultingly ignoring you.

mconlonx

But I didn't insult you, I just criticized a certain behavior... Aww...

Mark Stone

How DARE you!! Never speaking to you again.

Tiglath

Thank you for your sarcasm and insult free answer. There are after all folks here who understand the importance of manners.

I took a different tack. When I got back into cycling after never having worn a helmet before, I thought about it. And the sheer desire to live a long life injury free decided for me. So now it's settled and it's already paid off.

Also, the fact that cycling helmets are really no big deal to wear helped a lot. The cost/benefit ratio is a good one.

Not so with motorcycles. I also rode motocycles without helmet in my misspent youth, but when I bought my last motorbike, I had to wear one, and I agree that it is best to do so. Good motorcycle helmets, however, are just terrible head cages, and do take away a lot of the fun. So I no longer ride a motorbike, it's too uncomfortable and the few close calls I had tell me that all those SUV that own the roads are too much to deal with.

corrado33

Alright guys.

Let's take a step back and try to discuss this without resorting to insults or emotions. I don't care who started it.

Let's try to move this thread into a direction where we post studies and rational, unbiased, websites on the problem at hand. (Or at least websites that admit their biases.)

I'll start.

Here's the study that EVERYONE and their mother get's the helmets are 85% safer statistic (even though that's not what the study says.)

https://www.med.illinois.edu/m2/epid...ctions/3-5.pdf
Hopefully you'll be able to see it, since I'm at a university I have better access than most. If you actually bother to read the study more than the abstract (and you have any sort of experimental training.) you'll see that the study was conducted poorly and the conclusions that were drawn were...dubious and a bit reaching. Many sites agree with me on these points.

Now, here's a safe cycling website discussing helmet use and also has a few notes about this study further down the page.

https://bicyclesafe.com/helmets.html

Some of the interesting things on this page.

Helmets DO make falls a bit safer. However, wearing a helmet makes BIKING more dangerous. They sited a "study" (I haven't read it.) where they found that cars tend to pass helmeted bikers more closely than non-helmeted bikers, increasing the risk of getting hit.

This is one of their conclusions.
Research has failed to show any net protective value of bike helmets.

We all have opinions strongly laced with emotions and experiences. Let's try to keep those out of the discussion and read what scientists and people more level headed than we are have to say.

EDIT: So I don't seem biased, here's a site advocating for the USE of helmets. They DO admit their bias however.

https://www.helmets.org/shouldi.htm

CarinusMalmari

So regardless of the specific circumstances of the accidents, if someone dared to not wear a helmet when it happened, they should be held accountable for the full damage that might or might not have been prevented by the helmet. But of course you aren't in favor of MHL.

Also, pretending you find something sad and regrettable, when it's painfully clear you lick your chops at the thought of brain-splattering dead helmet-haters or drooling brain-damaged helmet deniers that go bankrupt on medical bills because they dared to defy your advise in this matter, is rather hypocritical.

Anyway, if you stop whining about how horrible the people here treat you, you'll fit in just fine and you can be a real asset to this discussion.

Tiglath

It's not your behavior that is offensive, it's your smell.

Tiglath

There is no good future between us. I recommend you find other ears.

CarinusMalmari

I don't mind insults, it's an integral part of the experience. But I'm mildly irritated by people who can't take what they dish out.

3alarmer 

CarinusMalmari

This is exactly the attitude as to why my hopes are high for you. With time I can see you become the new not-rydabent-but-the-other-one. Your character is as pleasant as nails to a school board and you're completely oblivious to that. Other than that your convictions are very strong, and that's exactly what you need to excel here.

3alarmer 

...I do not wish to seem negative, but the studies approach has been tried in other iterations of this thread.

For some reason, unbeknownst to me this appears to be more of a political and emotional issue. There are many quoted studies on both sides of the issue, and a lot of questionably biased research. @meanwhile was good at quoting studies and interpreting them to support his own views, even if the overall study did not. He (or she) might be on "vacation" right now, though.

But good on you for this rather Quixotic attempt at introducing order into bedlam, For Bedlam is what the Helment Threadtm genuinely is.

3alarmer 

...more broken promises, I bet.

PhotoJoe 

MOD NOTE: OK, I think everyone has made it clear as to who like whom, the definition of insults, etc. Please let it go.