Salamandrine 

Well, first I'd like to thank you for buying that cool old Paramount frame and keeping us entertained!


For cranks, Stronglight 49D are relatively available. They're not OEM but they are period correct. However I'm pretty sure you could come up with a 55 with a little patience. I still remember old timers complaining about aluminum cranks. Stupid and weak, or some such thing...


For brakes, MAFAC can work for now, but a Paramount of that era really cries out for Weinmann Vainqueurs. Campy for the rest, IMO. It may require a front derailleur with a stop, depending on whatever guide is on there.

merziac

Oh crap! My bad, Mafac's and the joke, went right over my head.

The Mafac's could stay and I would keep them over the Weinmann's while not as proper for this, they are truly lackluster at best, maybe with different levers and or good cables and pads.

Could always spring for new Dia Compes that purportedly. work better, but $$$.

Cranks are a bit of a black hole, unfortunately the chasm is only filled by Campy or cottered Stronglight, one too common, one to rare.

With the Mafac's, you could go ala Spence Wolfe touring and use a Stronglight 49D as suggested above but....

Narhay

Ok, I have some crank options.

I have a set of universal mod 61 centrepulls if that is within the realm of era appropriate.

I will clean up the frame and get some more details but it is currently quarantining.

cudak888 

There were Paramount Tourists with derailer drivetrains, but they were also fairly uncommon (one of my grail bikes is a 58-59cm, 3-speed, second-gen Paramount with the correct chainguard brazeons). This frame would be a fairly accurate candidate for such a build with those unpainted lugs though.

FYI, no P15's in 1963 - though I believe you could order a P13 without chrome lugs, just as you could order a P12 with them. IIRC, something changed in the ordering sheets along the way - and I really have to look back at the catalogs to see if the chrome ends may help to pin down whether this is a P12 or 13.

-Kurt

repechage

A friend had a '63 Paramount he bought new, an exchange upon purchase? Mafac Dural Forge brakes.

repechage

Skill and a small good quality brush. I might be able to do it after two stiff drinks in succession, one has to feel loose.
I would drop the fork, should repack anyway, then try some Testors or Tamiya solvent based model paint, buy the matching thinner- for ability to thin, ability to wipe off errors with a solvent tipped Q-tip and NOT damage the color coat. Do the testing on the steerer. Alternative is one-shot sign paint, but mo' money. You could stripe a car though...
Many detail painters mount the frame on a rod extended into the seat tube and fixed securely to a shop table. you do not have three hands. allows rotation of the work for access.
If you reference online, you will also see that the fork crown was also detailed the same way.

Narhay

I'd appreciate if you could clarify the p12 or p13.

Mad Honk 

Narhay,
I see in post #14 what appears to be a factory repaint after the frame was sent back in for a re-inspection of the lugs and seat stay brazes. There was a short period where a slight crack appeared at those junctures, and Schwinn brought them in and checked and re-painted them at no cost to the original buyer. My 1969 frame went back in for that treatment and is now housed in a private collection in Chicago. The first time they did it the paint peeled, and bubbled, so they took it back and re-painted with the PDG logos in pearl white, as that was the only paint they were using at the time. As it was their call I accepted and the bike came back to me with that paint scheme. They saved the chrome on the bike, only re-painting the original paint areas.
You have a great bike and what little it will take to bring it back will be easy. The parts are out there and BF members will help you locate them. Good luck with your project. Smiles, MH

xiaoman1 

repechage,
I have heard others recommend the use of the "pen" in order to get the slight distance from the edge of the lugs, but I from viewing some of the pinstripes you can see a little brush overlap so I am thinking steady hand and paint strippers brush with "1-shot"...maybe "Stan" would known he seems to be one of the Paramount experts here.
However, I know that I would need more than a couple of stiff drinks to ever achieve what the P.S.'s did at the Paramount paint shop.
Best, Ben

merziac

Just spitballin the P-15 idea for another option to the standard Record or Stronglight options, need to get creative if you're not going to hold the original line, hence the Spence Wolfe or "P-15" theories.

I've also seen a few later tourist setups that were built from P-12-13's?, P-11's from 68 were built off of regular 10 speed versions, no chain guard or braze on's.

They may have been dealer builds but I know they would do whatever you wanted to sell a Paramount.

I saw a 74-6 Paramount that had upright bars and twin-stick stem mounted shifters at Phil's or Gateway Schwinn in PDX, it may have been a dealer build, it was factory stock cables and all brand new on the showroom floor.

Salamandrine 

That was my first impression as well -- that it was a factory repaint. I would have stated it more emphatically, but I'm not any kind of expert on things Paramount. Thanks for contributing some firsthand knowledge on this subject.

Repaints done in the 70s would have likely been some sort too thick metallic Imron, not plain enamel. More often than not there would have been some braze ons added on. Also, people who can do pinstriping at that level are few and far between. Takes years of practice. If it was done at the Schwinn factory, all you need to do is go and get the old geezer that does pinstriping.

Personally I'd not add lug lining. If you did though a paint pen works pretty well and doesn't require years of practice. A small bottle of lighter fluid (naphtha) kept on hand can be used to erase mistakes. It generally won't harm well cured enamel, at least not a quick wipe, but test on an inconspicuous area anyway.

Narhay

Thanks for the discussion re oem and paint. Lots to consider.

Would this have taken a 27.2 seatpost?

PilotFishBob 

Yes. Both of mine do.

merziac

Not sure about the year but components and specs seem fairly consistent 60-65?

According to the Schwinn info in this, the P-12 had Chrome forks and stays, the P-13 had forks, stays, crown and lugs or complete for no charge so.....

There are other interesting details that could also pertain, Reynolds SP on P-12, Brooks Competition standard B-17 on both, Stronglight on the 12 and Record on the 13, sew-ups optional on both, frame angles the same on both, braze on TT cable guides on both.

Mad Honk 

Narhay,
The pictures of the seat stays show a bit of extra brazing material left between the stay and seat post lug. The small indent left there, is a detail Wanda would never have let leave the shop. That suggests strongly for the seat stay repair and re-paint from the factory. Just a bit of personal thinking on this one. But still a great find. Looking at the prices from back then they seemed so inexpensive. But a loaf of bread was a dime, and a gallon of gas was fifteen cents. My 1965 Pontiac was only $2100, and a new Mustang was $1900. In 1966 a Chevy convertible was still obtainable for $2500. Thanks for the memories! Smiles, MH

PilotFishBob 

^^ On that note, I often like to plug in the year and price of a bike to see how what it cost back then translates into current dollars. The amounts are sometimes quite surprising. https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Mad Honk 

PFB,
What's a gallon of flight fuel today? Smiles, MH

Narhay

I paid just a bit more than the Deluxe version in Zone 3 but in today's dollars so I think I got a good deal. Of course piecing a bike together from a frame with 60s components is the least cost effective way to go.

Kilroy1988 

I dunno' about that in this particular situation, as nice older Paramounts are rather pricey... With a bit of patience you should be able to pick up all of the necessary components for no more than a thousand bucks.

I'm on the fence about finishing off the 1954 Carlton Super Python frame set I recently acquired, and I only need the wheels and derailleurs at this point. I still think that will double the current investment of $600 or so!

First world problems, 'eh?

Lovely Paramount frame. I'm looking forward to seeing what you make of it. Cheers!

-Gregory

merziac

I think you did just fine and isn't the piecing together where the "fun" comes from?

Kilroy1988 

I'm not sure about Narhay, but I certainly think it's fun! However, there's also something nice about acquiring complete vintage bicycles knowing that they have been with most or all of their components for many a year... The whole bicycle can tell a fanciful story about its past that you simply never get after realizing that all of it was put together just recently.

-Gregory

merziac

Kilroy1988

Agreed, one of the other aspects I enjoy is figuring out workarounds, proper substitutes and liberties you can get away and live with, for yourself, the collective, etc.

I have an Olmo like Obrentharris is working on, it is small for me and I honestly bought it for some of the parts to go on a 1960 Cinelli SC for a build similar to Brents without all Campy Record standard bling out. The Olmo will hold its place if the parts are used but I am working on using less of them. I like to find examples that buck the normal trends and firmly believe many of the bikes we see may not have started out with what we think they did.

Or just do builds that honor more of the diversity that once was far more varied. Don't get me wrong, I love me a full Campy fitting as much as the next guy but we have zillions of bikes built pretty much the exact same way, when you can go to a show and see a row of bikes from several decades with almost the same exact buildup it is a little disheartening for me knowing many other brands and components came and went mostly not to be seen very much again.

I like to see bikes that have original builds with parts you don't see often so that you can get a better view of what was really out there and learn about it.

PilotFishBob 

When I was a student pilot in 2002 it was about two-fifty, half again more expensive than high-grade mo-gas. Then it got as high as $7.50 ish at some places in the fuel crunch a few years back, over $5/gal at my airport. These days it's $3.30/gal for me, it varies elsewhere. The problem with avgas is it's the last fuel that still uses tetraethyl lead - they've been working on a replacement forever but it's hard to get the high octane some high powered engines in the fleet need and not use lead.

And $3.30 today is still outlandish in 1970's bucks.

trainman999

Narhay
Here is a link to the best example I know of, of an original paint, pinstriping, and decals in the Disney style on a Paramount. You will have to deleat the space after the h to get it to work. I think your Paramount is a repaint but I dont think in Chicago. It would have had the current decals and pinstriping they were doing. A Waterford repaint is a posibility the decals and pinstriping look like there. Send Richard Schwinn an email he might recognize it.
h ttps://www.flickr.com/photos/65214324@N02/sets/72157664079369264/with/26152598586/

Mad Honk 

PFB,
Buying it by the 50 gallon drum for the race car, is still a bit,expensive, But in the current economy I may not have to buy too many barrels this year. Season is almost totally cancelled for the year. Five, if possible is not enough racing for a trophy. Smiles, MH