Northeast Racing
09-30-16, 06:30 AM
#3626
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I respectably disagree with you. It will get harder to pull off. It will get more expensive. However the price/value inflection point hasn't been reached, at least for the race I'm involved with. If you have a great course, and work tirelessly to make your race the best that it can be, racers will support you.
09-30-16, 08:18 AM
#3627
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Also, the inflection point for the biggest race in North America was reached in 2014 or so. It'll permeate through soon enough in every region, including New England. I'm hoping that you'll be able to say I was wrong in 3-4 years, but I don't think I am. Societal and technological changes will have a heavier influence over people's free time going forward as well. That'll probably play the larger role vs. any of the traditional demographical science we play experts at sometimes.
Last edited by DieterDrake; 09-30-16 at 09:39 AM.
09-30-16, 08:38 AM
#3628
Senior Member
For Bethel the nutty year was 2010. 125 rider fields in the 3-4 race twice, 100 riders in the P123 field, 70-80 in the Masters and 4s. I don't think we'll see 125 riders in a 3-4 crit around here for a long time.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
09-30-16, 10:46 AM
#3629
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i think without kids entering the sport, it is both tougher for older folks (parents) to stay involved and tougher for people to care moving forward.
i'm the parent of a young boy, and i've found myself saying the following a number of times when people have asked if i want him to race as i do.
aside from the fact that it is a hobby for me, i'd have a hard time putting my kid -- as a junior -- into scenarios where he is training and racing on open roads. it is one thing for me to do this as a masters athlete, where i both know and accept the risk. kids simply lack the capacity to make proper judgment calls and/or to truly grasp the risks they face, and mistakes can get one of us killed when we're up against multi-ton vehicles operated by people giving less than 100% attention.
it pains me a bit to say it. i can see why MTB and CX are growing more from this safety point of view.
i won't coach juniors and younger riders for this reason; i don't want to be responsible for sending a junior out on the open road to do VO2 intervals in traffic, esp when they might not realize they should end a 3' interval at 2:40 when they hit a stop light rather than push on through.
i don't want to pick on dieter at all here as i have loved his battenkill race (traveled across the country for it multiple times!), but i cite an incident this year as an example: even during a race event where racers are looked after, there was an unmanned intersection on the course. i'd front-flatted going down one of the dirt descents (no neutral wheels for me...
sad day), and at this point i was in a car with my friend and his father, two area locals. we were following the head of a couple races, catching them at a few points. one of the intersections was either a 4-way stop or -- i think -- open in the direction of the race and stop signs crossing the course. my friend and his dad (folks who have lived in the area 30+ years) noted that locals simply ignore those stop signs.point o all this is to say that had i not flatted and been at the front of the race as i'd hoped, i'd still use my old-guy judgment and even throw away the race at an unmanned intersection like that in the name of safety. if a 14-yo is there, s/he is more likely to blindly follow whoever is in front.
importantly, i think the junior races dieter set up are on a smaller portion of the course, and in general (aside from the lack of neutral support in my field!
) the events are VERY well organized/run. i'm merely citing this as a recent example of a situation that i've thought about that can have a bad effect on someone younger/with less discretion.we've all been on race courses where a volunteer is asleep, or a car just decides they're going to jump on the course because, hey, they're a motor vehicle and screw the bikers. not sure i'd unleash my kid in that way, esp if he had less than world-class talent.
on a related note: i recently raced in europe. the race was 7 euros, and for that we had full support and closed roads. the race was an EVENT. it was basically all people mid-20s and younger (if you're mid-20s and you haven't made it to a pro team, you basically get on with the rest of your life) -- one field. there was real-deal traffic control (gendarmes) at every possible spot. it was super hectic and crazy due to traffic circles and road furniture, but it was very safe otherwise.
while it was a big event for the town, they shut down roads for ~3h, not all day (e.g. to run 14 different fields).
of course cycling and racing in europe is a very different culture.
09-30-16, 10:58 AM
#3630
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this is true.
i think without kids entering the sport, it is both tougher for older folks (parents) to stay involved and tougher for people to care moving forward.
i'm the parent of a young boy, and i've found myself saying the following a number of times when people have asked if i want him to race as i do.
aside from the fact that it is a hobby for me, i'd have a hard time putting my kid -- as a junior -- into scenarios where he is training and racing on open roads. it is one thing for me to do this as a masters athlete, where i both know and accept the risk. kids simply lack the capacity to make proper judgment calls and/or to truly grasp the risks they face, and mistakes can get one of us killed when we're up against multi-ton vehicles operated by people giving less than 100% attention.
it pains me a bit to say it. i can see why MTB and CX are growing more from this safety point of view.
i won't coach juniors and younger riders for this reason; i don't want to be responsible for sending a junior out on the open road to do VO2 intervals in traffic, esp when they might not realize they should end a 3' interval at 2:40 when they hit a stop light rather than push on through.
i don't want to pick on dieter at all here as i have loved his battenkill race (traveled across the country for it multiple times!), but i cite an incident this year as an example: even during a race event where racers are looked after, there was an unmanned intersection on the course. i'd front-flatted going down one of the dirt descents (no neutral wheels for me... sad day), and at this point i was in a car with my friend and his father, two area locals. we were following the head of a couple races, catching them at a few points. one of the intersections was either a 4-way stop or -- i think -- open in the direction of the race and stop signs crossing the course. my friend and his dad (folks who have lived in the area 30+ years) noted that locals simply ignore those stop signs.
point o all this is to say that had i not flatted and been at the front of the race as i'd hoped, i'd still use my old-guy judgment and even throw away the race at an unmanned intersection like that in the name of safety. if a 14-yo is there, s/he is more likely to blindly follow whoever is in front.
importantly, i think the junior races dieter set up are on a smaller portion of the course, and in general (aside from the lack of neutral support in my field!) the events are VERY well organized/run. i'm merely citing this as a recent example of a situation that i've thought about that can have a bad effect on someone younger/with less discretion.
we've all been on race courses where a volunteer is asleep, or a car just decides they're going to jump on the course because, hey, they're a motor vehicle and screw the bikers. not sure i'd unleash my kid in that way, esp if he had less than world-class talent.
on a related note: i recently raced in europe. the race was 7 euros, and for that we had full support and closed roads. the race was an EVENT. it was basically all people mid-20s and younger (if you're mid-20s and you haven't made it to a pro team, you basically get on with the rest of your life) -- one field. there was real-deal traffic control (gendarmes) at every possible spot. it was super hectic and crazy due to traffic circles and road furniture, but it was very safe otherwise.
while it was a big event for the town, they shut down roads for ~3h, not all day (e.g. to run 14 different fields).
of course cycling and racing in europe is a very different culture.
i think without kids entering the sport, it is both tougher for older folks (parents) to stay involved and tougher for people to care moving forward.
i'm the parent of a young boy, and i've found myself saying the following a number of times when people have asked if i want him to race as i do.
aside from the fact that it is a hobby for me, i'd have a hard time putting my kid -- as a junior -- into scenarios where he is training and racing on open roads. it is one thing for me to do this as a masters athlete, where i both know and accept the risk. kids simply lack the capacity to make proper judgment calls and/or to truly grasp the risks they face, and mistakes can get one of us killed when we're up against multi-ton vehicles operated by people giving less than 100% attention.
it pains me a bit to say it. i can see why MTB and CX are growing more from this safety point of view.
i won't coach juniors and younger riders for this reason; i don't want to be responsible for sending a junior out on the open road to do VO2 intervals in traffic, esp when they might not realize they should end a 3' interval at 2:40 when they hit a stop light rather than push on through.
i don't want to pick on dieter at all here as i have loved his battenkill race (traveled across the country for it multiple times!), but i cite an incident this year as an example: even during a race event where racers are looked after, there was an unmanned intersection on the course. i'd front-flatted going down one of the dirt descents (no neutral wheels for me...
sad day), and at this point i was in a car with my friend and his father, two area locals. we were following the head of a couple races, catching them at a few points. one of the intersections was either a 4-way stop or -- i think -- open in the direction of the race and stop signs crossing the course. my friend and his dad (folks who have lived in the area 30+ years) noted that locals simply ignore those stop signs.point o all this is to say that had i not flatted and been at the front of the race as i'd hoped, i'd still use my old-guy judgment and even throw away the race at an unmanned intersection like that in the name of safety. if a 14-yo is there, s/he is more likely to blindly follow whoever is in front.
importantly, i think the junior races dieter set up are on a smaller portion of the course, and in general (aside from the lack of neutral support in my field!
) the events are VERY well organized/run. i'm merely citing this as a recent example of a situation that i've thought about that can have a bad effect on someone younger/with less discretion.we've all been on race courses where a volunteer is asleep, or a car just decides they're going to jump on the course because, hey, they're a motor vehicle and screw the bikers. not sure i'd unleash my kid in that way, esp if he had less than world-class talent.
on a related note: i recently raced in europe. the race was 7 euros, and for that we had full support and closed roads. the race was an EVENT. it was basically all people mid-20s and younger (if you're mid-20s and you haven't made it to a pro team, you basically get on with the rest of your life) -- one field. there was real-deal traffic control (gendarmes) at every possible spot. it was super hectic and crazy due to traffic circles and road furniture, but it was very safe otherwise.
while it was a big event for the town, they shut down roads for ~3h, not all day (e.g. to run 14 different fields).
of course cycling and racing in europe is a very different culture.
I changed the shorter junior courses to a circuit close to the start venue last year because we had drunk drivers harassing them the year before at a point where they were all strung out and where it was difficult to supervise with motos and officials fully (thankfully, we hire every available officer within 30 miles and 2 were stationed on opposite ends of the road where this genius decided to swerve and yell out the window of his truck at 12 year old kids...DWI on the spot). There is no way I'll ever go back to having young kids race on open roads with high(er) traffic.
09-30-16, 11:32 AM
#3631
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I don't pretend to be an expert. I know what I know. I've seen the demographics. I've also seen registration return to levels not seen five years ago. I've read countless survey results supporting the race and the overwhelming desire to return next year. We have two significant Junior development organizations out here, and every year I watch their kids move into racing, and often winning, their category. Yes, it is more difficult to run a road race every year, especially single loop classics like ours. Maybe it plays out like you say, then again maybe it doesn't.
09-30-16, 11:42 AM
#3632
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at our district races there are far fewer 35-39 guys than 40-45, and fewer 40-45 than 45-50.
I just need to hang around long enough to win 1 national championship, get the stripes, and retire to group ride racer full time.
I just need to hang around long enough to win 1 national championship, get the stripes, and retire to group ride racer full time.
09-30-16, 11:42 AM
#3633
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I don't pretend to be an expert. I know what I know. I've seen the demographics. I've also seen registration return to levels not seen five years ago. I've read countless survey results supporting the race and the overwhelming desire to return next year. We have two significant Junior development organizations out here, and every year I watch their kids move into racing, and often winning, their category. Yes, it is more difficult to run a road race every year, especially single loop classics like ours. Maybe it plays out like you say, then again maybe it doesn't.
12-22-16, 09:39 AM
#3634
out walking the earth
Syracuse Race Weekend
Some news before the new year... Mark your calendars! We have dates for next year. AND... our road race has been named the 2017 New York State road race championships by NYSBRA.
The dates are:
Friday June 23rd, 2017: Hill Climb @ Beak & Skiff
Saturday June 24th, 2017: TT at LaFayette Apple Festival Grounds
Saturday June 24th, 2017: Criterium at Onondaga Park Syracuse
Sunday June 25th, 2017: Road race / NYS RR Championship
The dates are:
Friday June 23rd, 2017: Hill Climb @ Beak & Skiff
Saturday June 24th, 2017: TT at LaFayette Apple Festival Grounds
Saturday June 24th, 2017: Criterium at Onondaga Park Syracuse
Sunday June 25th, 2017: Road race / NYS RR Championship
12-22-16, 10:27 AM
#3635
Rides too much bike
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Quabbin seems to be upping the game this year. 120 miles in the P12 race. I can't decide if I am excited or terrified.
12-23-16, 08:02 AM
#3636
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Mike and I had a long talk about that this year. When the pros did two laps he had a huge international field. I reinforced to him that there is nothing close to this distance in this part of the country other than Hilltowns. I urged him to consider bringing back the epic single loop (two in his case) distances. His costs are going to go way up but he made money last year so he's game.
Watching Nuzzo suffer is fun too.
Watching Nuzzo suffer is fun too.
12-23-16, 07:39 PM
#3637
Senior Member
12-24-16, 05:10 AM
#3640
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M60+ that pays the first four places...I can only dream.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
12-24-16, 06:44 AM
#3641
Senior Member
12-24-16, 07:44 AM
#3642
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12-24-16, 07:53 PM
#3644
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02-14-17, 12:30 PM
#3645
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Any word on whether Killington is happening this year?
Maybe it's still too early, but there's no info about this year's race on the KSR website or facebook page (aside from a banner that just says "May 27 - 29, 2017") and there's no bikereg page for this year's race yet.
Maybe it's still too early, but there's no info about this year's race on the KSR website or facebook page (aside from a banner that just says "May 27 - 29, 2017") and there's no bikereg page for this year's race yet.
02-14-17, 07:15 PM
#3646
Senior Member
02-15-17, 08:16 PM
#3647
Senior Member
I saw that Chris Hinds is part of Velotooler Spring Series. Must be some kind of combination of races in NE or something.
__________________
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
"...during the Lance years, being fit became the No. 1 thing. Totally the only thing. It’s a big part of what we do, but fitness is not the only thing. There’s skills, there’s tactics … there’s all kinds of stuff..." Tim Johnson
02-15-17, 08:40 PM
#3648
Nonsense
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02-16-17, 03:24 PM
#3650
Love that dirty water
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3/25: Ninigret (To be announced)
4/2: Marblehead (only part of the series for Pro1/2 filed)
4/8: Brumble kermesse
4/15: Chris Hinds
4/23: Monson RR
4/29: Quabbin RR