Henry III

This got me thinking from another thread. Of the more known of larger Italian builders who actually build their own bikes. I'm not talking currently but of the time period of related to this forum. Like when you toss your leg over that Colnago, Ciocc, Guerciotti, etc...is it really or just the decals? I know quite a few companies had frames built by subcontractors like Billato so I was just curious. I guess it kind of ruins it for me when I find out frame wasn't actually built by so and so. My Ciocc is a mid 80's TSD model so it was never in the same building as Giovanni as the name was sold years before it was ever built. I just look at the bike a little differently and I guess that goes for most TSD bikes.

Plus who and when did they sell their name? Such as Masi, Ciocc, Bottecchia...

noglider 

I'm the only Tom Reingold on the internet, so when you google me, all those embarrassing quotes really did come from me.

Drillium Dude 

I'm pretty sure my '74 and '83 Colnagos were built in Cambiago. The other Italians I have are all somewhat obscure, so I couldn't say for sure - they could've sub-contracted. All except Casati - I know they do all their frames under one roof.

I'm positive my Davidson was built in Seattle, in the back workshop at Elliott Bay Bicycles

DD

3alarmer

Not really, but I'm in witness protection, so I can't say any more.

Let's just say I sang like a canary about the Specialized Crime Syndicate.

KonAaron Snake 

Pretty much all of my bikes were built by the names that adorn them. I know that the Billatos, and other subcontractors, were fantastic builders (often better than those they worked for), but, for me, there's something special about the bike being built by the factory/workshop...or, preferably, builder, whose name is on my bike. I have little interest in Ciocc, Bottechia, Colnago, etc. for that very reason. It might be irrational, but I like knowing a De Rosa built my De Rosas.

As a side note - why is better to have a Serotta built by Bedford or Kirk at the Serotta factory than getting a Ciocc built by a Billatto? Since Colnago hands likely never touched DD's Colnago, is that really preferable to one that's subcontracted? Some bikes are more valuable subcontracted - like a Billato Lemond. All of this is to say that it's all perception and marketing. I know that, yet am still susceptible to it.

RobE30

Most of my bikes were built by drunken Brits

ftwelder

The only collectables that I have that I know are contract built bikes would be the Carlton built Raleighs and Rudge. But I guess if Raleigh owned the factory that would not count. I don't think my Raleighs are of the correct vintage.

I can tell you I used to build a lot of MTB's for brands that didn't have the ability to make anything. I still do for a few.

pastorbobnlnh 

Frank, that is such an incredible statement. Sad but true across many professions. In my business this would be the case for the pastors who never write their own sermons or prayers.

non-fixie 

No, of course not. Where's the fun in that?

But on a more serious note: isn't the search for who actually built the bike part of the whole C&V experience? For me it is.

Homebrew01

I built my own for racing back then, so I know it wasn't outsourced !

RobbieTunes

Centurion didn't make any of my bikes, and it's likely my Cinellis were Chirico-made, and I'm 110% OK with that.

dddd

One of my best-riding bikes of all time, a 1997 Masi Nuova Strada, has an "M" cutout in the bb shell, but it's not the Masi "M".
It's Mondonico-built, and I am quite OK with that. It was alco painted in California, by I think Dave Allen(?) at Cyclesmiths(?) perhaps.
Just a great ride, and with the enviable reputation for quality control that such a large contract builder can boast.
Both my Marin Vicenza and (former) Palo-Alto Touring bike were especially good bikes as well, and both were built by Billato.

I have a Fausto Coppi 1990's Repato Corse that is very nice also, and I would like to know who built it.

Even my 1952 Eugene Christophe pro road bike, though sold at or through E. Christophe's French storefront, is identical to the Automoto Champion De Monde of the same year, but perhaps even the very large Automoto company contracted out their top model.

OldsCOOL

I still do.

On the other hand, I have some spaghetti in the pantry that isnt made in Italy.

vinfix

If you're into the collectability and provenance of a bike, where a frame was built matters. Or maybe if you get a kick out of researching it & knowing, like sports statistics. It must matter to a lot of collectors, since I've read here about scammers forging Colnagos, etc.

The implication of a sub-contracted or off-shore built bike, of course, is that it's done to meet cost or production volume targets, and therefore the quality is not as good. That, and it doesn't have the "romance" of coming from some Italian craftsman's shop. This is all relative, back in the 80's Japanese bikes were considered copies and not all that great, now the vintage ones have respect.

Old Italian bike= collectible,even though they made crappy ones, too.
New one, actually made in China with spotty quality, and a re-licensed or a made-up, Italian style name= (perceived as) junk.

dddd

"Old Italian bike= collectible,even though they made crappy ones, too.
New one, actually made in China with spotty quality, and a re-licensed or a made-up, Italian style name= (perceived as) junk."

In today's market, with faster start-ups, it's going to be harder to quantify what you're buying.
Companies that have maintained a continuous output of bikes are correctly percieved as more likely to have control of maintaining their reputation for quality, even if they do outsource production.
A re-start of an old name is better than nothing only to the extent that the obsolete brand name has value such that the new owner loses value of the brand they bought if they build bad product.

ThermionicScott 

Both of my Bianchis were made in Asia. I'm okay with it.

David Newton

I know who built 3 of my guitars.

well biked

My chrome (April) '71 Schwinn Paramount was probably built in "the cage" at the Chicago Schwinn plant, but I don't think that is definite. I've read that Don Mainland in Wisconsin built all of the chrome Paramounts for model year 1972 (and beyond?), but wasn't doing nearly as many before that, so that would seem to mean there's a good chance my '71 bike was built in Chicago. I really don't know, and I don't think there's any way to know for sure. From a workmanship standpoint it wouldn't be a bad thing if he built it, since I think the reason he built the full chrome bikes was that his finish work on the frames was better for the most part.

Bianchigirll 

Well as I have said in here before, I have built atleast one new from 10spd Drive Guerciotti frame that although painted//badged Guerciotti the BB shell and other embellishments were atcually Battaglin.

I have it on good authority that my Bertoni "funny bike" as well as other Bertonis were built by Bianchi.

I am however confident that all my Italian Bianchis were built by a employee of Bianchi Spa Italy but I don't think Eduardo has picked up a torch in several years.

I have no idea who built the Rigi frames for WSI back in the day. Same with my Cornelo (it is actually Dutch but worth mentioning) although I was told it was thought to be built in Italy

Andycapp

According to the catalog "every Tommasini frame and fork is built personally by Iro Tommasini". Not sure if that means he actually brazes every frame or not but I take it to mean they're all built in house and I love that fact.

On the other hand, I was just given a '59 Huffy Sportsman 3-speed that was built by Raleigh. Everything about it is British and that's a huge relief!

Henry III

I guess what I'm saying is if a bike is made by so and so then it raises my eyebrow if it was actually made in their shop.

What's the whole story on TSD frames? Did they do like braze on work such putting on their own brake bridges or did they just get bare frames or so the painting there. Or did they build the entire frame up there. Like Trina said one Guerciotti she built up had Battaglin embellishments. Now I'm not saying I expect a Colnago to be brazed up Ernesto otherwise I'm not happy.

What famous companies sold their names and no longer associated with the brand?

KonAaron Snake 

Eddy Merckx

Schwinn, Dawes, Bottechia, Motobecane. GT, Diamond Back, Mongoose, Rene Herse, Cinelli, Merlin, Litespeed.

Simplyhere

Me too. :-) And I believe my Mercian was built by Mercian.

zukahn1 

Actually a lot of the RBCA bikes where actually made by Huffy . But as said they where very nice well built affordable bike as good or better than a lot of the stuff built in England.

Bianchigirll 

To the best of my knowledge the 10spd drive frame were built for them in Italy and I would assume they asked for / required th brake bridge stamping or maybe they did that before painting the frame in Fla.

How many of these guys are even around? Bottechia bikes did not come out until after his mysterious demise. Is Battaglin or Guerciotti still around? Who holds the name? I know there other frames brought in by 10spd I just can't think of any beside Coicc and Lemond and of course the afore mentioned Bottechias