Wattsup

I recently got me a fine used Salsa Vaya Ti, and I want to do right by it. I do a lot of riding in wet, muddy conditions, and I'm sure I'll be picking up some road salt this winter. What type of anti-seize is recommended to prevent galvanic corrosion of aluminum and steel attached to a titanium frame? Also, what areas should I be particularly concerned with? Bottom bracket tops my obvious list, but what/where else should I be concerned with?

Are there any other do's and don'ts for riding titanium in corrosive environments?

Thanks!

Andrew R Stewart 

My usual answer is that frequency of maintenance is more important then which brand of soap is used when bathing.

Pedals, BB shell, Post, Stem, and a lot of the little bolts are the items I would focus on. Andy

Wattsup

Thanks Andrew. What about the headset?

Bike Gremlin

+1 on what Andrew wrote - any kind of anti-seize is good for the pressures and temps that bicycle stuff faces.

Headset too - anti seize before placing the cups in the frame and the race on the fork.

Wattsup

Thanks!

dsbrantjr

I use and recommend Tef-Gel for all dissimilar metal joints. https://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=tefgel_infor it is not cheap but a little goes a long way.

easyupbug 

All of the above is good input at temps and pressures on bicycles will work. In industry we typically used nickel or copper based anti seize for ti, mostly to prevent ti to ti cold welding. Probably the safest out there is Finishline Ti-Prep which is made to covers all the bases of ti to other metals (galling, cold welding, etc.) and if you called Salsa they would confirm.

HillRider

I have three Ti frames and have used plumber's Teflon tape on my bottom bracket cups for many years. It provides complete protection against bi-metallic corrosion and seizing, prevents any water incursion and, best of all, never squeaks. It's also a lot less messy than anti-seize which stains anything and everything it touches.

I use grease on pedal spindle threads, water bottle cage bolts, headset cups and seatposts and have never had any problems with any of my frames including a 23 year-old one with 75,000 miles ridden in all types of weather.

Andrew R Stewart 

Well... bearings generally prefer a grease and not anti seize compound

Seriously and a slight tangent- I've had toe surgery recently and have borrowed a knee scooter for getting around the house on. It's much like a bike with wheels, cable brakes and two (it's a four wheeled cart of sorts) headsets. Being the guy I am I decided to give it a good servicing, including fresh cables and overhauling the headsets. I found that their bearings were lubed with anti seize! I guess this is better then nothing.

We talk about how severe our riding is. Rightfully so for some of us. But I'll tell you that some of the worst equipment condition I've had to deal with have been on wheelchairs (and racing sulkies too). Andy

Nessism

The electronegativity rating of Ti is 1.8, Fe (iron) is 1.8, and Al is 1.5. All of these are fairly close together so there won't be a whole lot of electron swapping between them. Fe/iron and aluminum parts are typically plated too which further protects them. I don't think it particularly matters what you use, grease or anti seize, so I vote grease because it's a little less messy.

And for what it's worth, carbon fiber tubing and raw aluminum are quite reactive when in direct contact with each other. The early glue together carbon tubed frames had a lot of failed joints due to corrosion. The frame makers learned their lesson and started anodizing the aluminum before bonding and the problems went away.

Wattsup

Thanks, will check it out.

Good idea, call the manufacturer!

Interesting. So why aren't most people using the tape? Are there any downsides?

Wattsup

Appreciate the input, and I'm just a newb with this stuff, but everything I've read suggests that aluminum will readily corrode when in contact with titanium in the presence of an electrolyte....they're practically at opposite end of the galvanic spectrum, according to the material I've read.

The anodization info is new to me. Thanks!

Wattsup

A related question please... I had been thinking of doing this stuff myself, but I found out a LBS of good repute will do it all and more (new hub bearings) for $180. I've been riding through mud, water and rain for three months now, so I'd like to get this stuff done as soon as yesterday. I don't want this BB seizing in my new frame!

What tools would I need to accomplish what we've talked about here....headset removal and treatment as suggested, bottom bracket, etc. Any estimate of total cost of parts, and the general difficulty of doing it correctly for a first-time newb?

Thanks!

2manybikes

All three things Teflon tape, Anti seize and grease will work. Grease, for moving parts like ball bearings. Anti seize on something that does not move, like seat posts or press fit things. tape is a little more convenient on threaded things. But grease and anti seize will work on threads too. If you already have grease or anti seize, no need to go to the store. However, the tape is cleaner.
I have used all three on titanium bikes, for a couple of decades.

Andrew R Stewart 

Depending on the area cost of living $180 for a bike overhaul (usually also assuming no issues that cost more time/tooling) is pretty cheap. I would really want to be sure of a shop's motivation to do all these little extra steps on reassembly before I would blindly expect this level of attention.

Headsets were asked about and I really didn't answer completely. One issue I see every so often is with a threadless headset/fork/stem is that the spacers between the stem and the rest of the system can corrode really badly. To a point where they effectively lock the adjustment to where it was before the corrosion happened. Just about every bike I see (and have removed the stem on) has no lube or other compounds on the fork's steerer where the stem and spacers are located. Most of the time it's a non issue, casual use/dry conditions/no aggressive sweat or salt water. But it get's a pain to have to saw off these spacers (and be careful to not nick the steerer) when doing what should be a quick and easy overhaul. So I advise applying a thin coat of some lube/compound on the steerer. Andy

Nessism

My bikes tend to start making noise from the stem/steerer/headset due to corrosion after a few months unless I'm careful with maintenance. Wipe off any sweat/salt, wash with water, and spray with WD-40. It helps to use plastic washers on both sides of the stem to reduce fretting damage too. Kind of a pain in the butt. I envy those guys that don't seem to sweat!

Wattsup

Location is Phila PA. Actually the normal price is $225, but they're having a special until the end of Jan. It's hard to know who's good, and who's a pretender, right? Although I don't think they're a Salsa dealer, they do seem to cater to serious cyclists, racers, etc.

79pmooney

I've simply used marine boat trailer hub grease and/or teflon on all of the ti interfaces just like I do for my steel frames. Never even think about it. Everything comes apart just fine. Now I haven't used CF parts (just because I don't buy CF parts) so I cannot comment there. I do have ti seatposts with aluminum heads in both of my ti bike. THey have not been given the real test. I don't sweat a lot and I have never seen sweat below my seat and rarely on my stem (except trainer riding when I do not use a towel; not often and not my ti bikes). Writing this last sentence reminds me my good ti bike also has a ti threadless stem on a steel steerer. Again, never been an issue.

Ben

Matt Gaunt

I've also heard of using teflon tape as a substitute for anti-seize on bottom bracket threads. I did consider using it when building up my new Ti frame earlier this year, however, I came across Shimano anti-seize for Ti and it seemed to fit the bill for me. It's messy but it does come with a built-in applicator brush so at least you can control the mess to a degree. One of my concerns was not achieving good enough coverage with the tape, a concern the anti-seize mostly eliminates. That's just me though. Hillrider definitely knows what he's talking about

Here's my DS BB cup when I was installing it:

When you say headset removal, what did you do in the first place? As others have said, so long theres some sort of grease in there, you'll be fine for a while. I used carbon-friendly grease on the crown race as I was installing onto a carbon steerer.

I think this is really good advice as well. Just watch you don't get grease on the steerer where the stem clamps it, particularly if your stem pinch bolt tightening torque is limited by the fact you're running a carbon steerer.

I have no idea what you get for $180 in terms of LBS labour where you guys are but for a 'premium service' in London (full strip down to frame, check and refit components), you'd be looking at around £120 plus parts.

Andrew R Stewart 

It's rare that a threadless stem will move on the steerer with correct clamp tension and without some shock or force with out with out a lube/anti seize between. The stem has a lot of surface contact with the steerer, more then a traditional quill type ever had. Now of course if the headset bearing suddenly freezes up and one has to steer really badly the stem could slip, but then you have other more problems then the stem.

What is your concern? Andy

Bike Gremlin

For carbon stems to steerer interface - no carbon mounting paste and no lube - since lube might require a bit more clamping force (and damage of carbon parts), while carbon mounting paste can find its way to the upper headset bearing and prevent it from turning nicely.

For anti-seize applicator - I got a 1$ silicone brush (for makeup I think) - wonderful.

Wattsup

Thought I'd stop back to this thread. So I replaced the BB in my Vaya Ti today. I was all set, had my new bottle of Permatex Copper Anti-seize, started applying it....Wow. That stuff is a REAL pain to apply....it wants to get everywhere. Halfway through it I said F-it, wiped it off the threads and liberally applied plain old grease. Like you said, it's the frequency of maintenance that counts. Had I used the copper anti-seize, I know I'd probably put off follow-up maintenance in the future. I wouldn't want to deal with that reddish goo! Now with the grease though, it'll be a simple thing to service the BB. It will take only a few minutes to remove, wipe down, and re-grease the BB in the future. With the red goo, you practically have to wear a hazmat suit!

I greased everything that touches that Ti frame, including the tiny derailleur bolts. While going over the bike, I discovered I need new bearings in the rear hub. That'll be the next project, right after the headset cup removal. Then I'll be ready for another season of sandy mud and rain!

Wattsup

Just a followup, a little over 4 years later, and after about 7,000 miles. I replaced the bottom bracket again. I have ridden in some very wet muddy conditions, The old BB took quite a bit of arm muscle to get out using a 14 inch long wrench, but it did come out. It was kind of dry, no lube apparent in the threads, and I do remember liberally greasing that thing up before the install.

Question. Are you all greasing brake bolts, the ones that connect the calipers to the frame? I see that the bolts usually come with a threadlocker on a small portion of the thread, but it's my understanding that even with only some surface area exposed on the thread, galvanic action can be quite active. i read even more active in one article. I think I applied a little grease last time. I'm not sure what to do with the tiny little hangar bolt. It also had a tiny bit of threadlocker on it, I think I applied a tiny bit of grease to it too. The brake bolts readily loosened up today. I'm hesitant to remove the hangar bolt, as I remember I rounded the hex out a little last time. I don't want to strip it. I might just buy another bolt, (or hangar and bolt.) What would you recommend for the hangar bolt and the break caliper bolts?

79pmooney

My thoughts - keep it simple. BB threads? Use teflon plumbing tape. The rest? Use plenty of marine grease (the stuff for boat trailer hubs- any auto parts store. Lifetime supply - $8.)

Wattsup

I use the Park high performance grease, *Park Tool HPG/1, thicker than their Polylube. The bottom bracket has been replaced already. I was just wondering what you all would use on the brake caliper bolts and the hangar bolt.


*
Park Tool HPG-1 was specifically formulated to aid in the performance of bearing applications such as bottom brackets, hubs and headsets, as well as pivots and suspension components.