bigfred 

O.K. I'm not a tandem rider, just a 115kg clyde who happens to ride 25-28mm tires.

High on my list of wider performance tires are the Michelin Pro Optimums. They're listed as 25mm, but, my experience has shown them to run slightly wider than that on 19mm rims. At 110psi my current set measure about 27.5mm, compared with 27mm for a set of 28mm Conti GP4Seasons I also have mounted up on similiar width rims.

The Michelins aren't long mileage tires. I only get 1500 or so miles out of a set and have replaced my last two as the consequence of sidewall cuts. But, they're light and seem to have excellent grip. As I recall they came in a little over advertised weight with the front in the mid 220's and the rear around 245-250, while the 28mm Conti 4Seasons weigh 255 grams.

I'm in the midst of bicycle projects and will swap the wheels around in the next week or so. After which, I should be able to provide some sort of side by side comparison.

waynesulak

Let us know how they work out.

mkane77g

My wife and myself bought our first tandem in 89', back when Sonoma County roads were in much better shape. Michelin has always been a favorite. Excellent ride quality was a trademark. We could wear a tire out and never have a flat mainly du to excellent road quality. Speed up to 2013 and roads have changed quite a bit. Tires have also. We like to go big on tires these days at a small weight penality. Worth it IMO if we can remain flat free and have good sidewall protection. The front is a 28mm tire in these pics. These tires are available in 25mm but rim protection is compromised. We have really crappy roads. Bikes a Supremo.[URL=https://s285.photobucket.com/user/MKane63t/media/006_zpsbecb98d4.jpg.html][IMG[URL=https://s285.photobucket.com/user/MKane63t/media/005-5_zpsd4049607.jpg.html]

sculbertson

We are using the Ultremo ZX in 28mm now and love them. They have a lively and fast feel, are very flat resistant and seem to be wearing very well.

Ritterview

Great, I order two 28 mm Schwalbe Ultremo ZX V-Guard tires from Wiggle ($39.43/tire).

Then Bike Rumor has a breathless article about the new super-duper 28 mm tire from Schwalbe.

SCHWALBE’S NEW RACE TIRE IS THE ONE

Schwalbe claims the One is both the fastest and at the same time most reliable racing tire they have produced.

To appease both professional racers and weekend warriors alike, the One will be available in clincher, tubeless, and tubular versions. All three versions of the tire will have Schwalbe’s new OneStar triple compound rubber which was developed specifically for lower rolling resistance. Schwalbe claims the new compound is only possible through the use of new polymers that have only recently been available which offered better trade offs between rolling resistance, wet grip, and durability.

The One is still very light at 205g, though apples to apples it is slightly heavier than the Ultremo ZX which will still be available. The benefit to the One is that it is faster and more durable than the Ultremo ZX. Designed with a new profile and beefed up shoulder, combined with V-guard and a new tread pattern the One promises to be extremely puncture resistant.

Offered in the three versions, sizing will be 23, 25, and 28mm for the clincher and tubeless tires, while the tubular will be sold in 22, 24, 26, and28mm sizes.

Bad1

New Schwalbe's One clincher will be out in September

Ritterview

Is this info from the Bike Radar post?

Schwalbe One road tyre – details released

The tyre will be made at a purpose-built factory in Reichshof, Germany, and Schwalbe said a clincher version will be available from September 2013.

Bad1

No from: https://road.cc/content/news/86615-sc...-tyre-launched

Carbonfiberboy 

A 295 lb. team, we have yet to find a higher performance tire than our current PRO4 Endurance. We have a lot of glass and flints around here, and we've had only two flats, from nasty objects, with these tires since we put them on last winter. We went through two ZX and two DD last summer and they were probably the flatiest tires we've ever used. They rode well, but . . . on one ride, we had 4 flats in 60 miles. When we threw them away, I counted over 50 pieces of glass embedded in the pair. We thought the DD only marginally better than the ZX, flat-wise. We ran 4000s for two years. They were nice when new, but also sucked up glass and flatted a lot after a few months. I pick the glass, etc., after every ride, but with some tires it's really hard to get it all. And then there's the fresh glass one picks up on the ride and getting fresh objects in the old cuts.

As far as "wider tires are faster," yes they are, if they are run at the same pressure as narrower tires. For instance the 25c ZX has a max of 130. The 28c ZX has a max of 115. Drop at max will be about the same with the 28c, so no faster. Adding the aero drag, slower. 28/25 = 1.12, 130/115 = 1.13. Plus I don't like the feel of 28c on my 19mm Deep V rims. 22mm-24mm rims would be better.

Ritterview

The PRO4 Endurance is, IIRC, the successor to the Krylion, which was a great tire. Unfortunately, Michelin does not offer a 28 mm version.

• 700X23C (23-622) / 110 TPI / 225g / 87-116 PSI / grey
• 700X23C (23-622) / 110 TPI / 225g / 87-116 PSI / yellow
• 700X23C (23-622) / 110 TPI / 225g / 87-116 PSI / red
• 700X25C (25-622) / 110 TPI / 225g / 87-116 PSI / grey

The entire MICHELIN® PRO4 road bike tire range is devoid of 28 mm. In 25 mm, it appears that the Pro4 Endurance is the equivalent to the Continental GP4Seasons, whereas the other Pro4's are equivalent to the GP4000S.

Dean V

Michelin ProRace tyres are big for their size. 25mm in Michelin is very close in size to a 28mm Conti. Not as big as the Schwalbe though.

waynesulak

I tend to think of Conti being smaller than the stated size. I suppose there is a marketing weight advantage when comparing Conti to other tires of the same stated size.

DubT

So why are you going to 28mm tires on your super light super fast Dragonfly? Pinch flats, flats, uncomfortable? I would be very concerned with the front tire fork clearance. If you pick up a little rock is it going to clear the tire/fork crown, the space between the tire and the fork at the top of the tire where it passes the bottom of the fork. That area of my fork is all scratched up from rocks hitting it. I have actually painted that area with the paint that you use on the bed of a pickup truck and then covered that with helicopter blade tape to protect it. There is a difference in the Schwalbe tires, the newest ones have the letter V on the sidewall. Are the ones that you ordered the new ones or are they left over old stock?

We are using the ZX "V" tires and for us here in Central Illinois they are fantastic! Light, fast, 2 flats in 11,000 miles and excellent wear. YMMV!
Wayne

Carbonfiberboy 

Where's the "V" supposed to be? I just looked at a ZX in the box and didn't see a "V".

DubT

There are 3 little boxes on the sidewall one says EVO with evolution line printed under it, one has a V in it with vectran guard printed under it and the third box has Race 3 star compound printed in it.

Carbonfiberboy 

Nope, I have the old tires.

Dean V

"V" could be the speed rating. Would be safe to 130mph. Good for those fast downhills.

SaddleSoar

Tom Spohn

We just finished a weekend on the chip seal roads of Lopez Island (in Washington's San Juan Islands) on new Ultremo ZX 700 x 28. Can't say how they will hold up over the long run but the ride quality and improvement in rolling resistance is immediately noticeable. We liked the gator skins that came on the bike; thought the gp4x were just a little better; and the Ultremos the best yet.

2frmMI

We also just switched from Conti gp4x to the Ultremo ZX in 28mm. Similar observations: very supple ride, but am going to guess that we will get significantly reduced tread life. I'm all ears about flats. Schwalbe claims these are very flat resistant, but with only about 250 miles so far, it is too early for us to comment.

wphamilton

I thought you were asking about Performance Bike brand tires and was going to suggest the budget brand on a wide rim But seriously, a wider rim reduces and elongates the contact patch which reduces rolling resistance and may also reduce aerodynamic drag, with the amusing result that some cheaper, heavier combinations may perform better than more traditional pricey ones.

Ritterview

I mounted up the 28 mm Schwalbe Ultremo ZX tires that I purchased from Wiggle. I ordered these on July 2d, and they arrived in California on July 11, so about 10 days.

These replaced Continental GP4000s 25mm tires.

I took both the 25 mm GP4000s and the 28 mm Ultremo, both mounted on ENVE clinchers (45 mm and 65 mm, respectively) and inflated to 115 psi, to the LBS, where the mechanic measured the width with a digital caliper.

The GP4000s 25 mm measured as 26.01 mm.



The Ultremo ZX 28 mm measured at 27.83 mm.



So, the width difference isn't really 3 mm, it is 1.82 mm.

Here's a pic of the front tire on the ENVE 65 mm clincher with a 22 mm width, to give the idea to what extent it is (un?)aerodynamic. Maybe someone can tell just by eyeballing it how many watts at 25 mph are forfeit due to the additional bulbous 1.82 mm, but I can't.



We rode it on Sunday, on the Alto Velo 'T' Ride, a group of very fast tandems whose wheels we consider ourselves lucky to hang on to.

We love the Schwalbe 28's! That extra 1.82 mm of air makes such a difference in smoothing out the ride. It is all so less granular. I have to call out fewer bumps, and what bumps there are all reduced, 40-50% (?) in magnitude. We both feel more grounded and secure. Less of the ride is random and non-linear, which makes a huge difference with my skittish stoker, who famously is terrified of descents. I've found that any physical input that is non-linear undergoes a further non-linear multiplier in the stoker's amygdala. So, on a scary descent, less random input transmitted through the tires makes for a calmer stoker. This might really help us descend more normally (not like the Death Ride's Monitor West, where we were 916/971 slowest.)

If the extra 1.82 mm is slowing us down, it is not evident from the Strava upload. We've done this ride before, and many sections many times. But on the ride we had 50 Strava Personal Achievements, including a slew of PR's. I had ridden and climbed a fair amount on Saturday, so it wasn't like I was all primed for PR's. I can't say that the tires made us any faster, but I'm pretty sure they didn't slow us down. The comfort and confidence they provide can only encourage us to ride more often and longer, and thereby more than regain any watts that might be insensibly lost to increased rolling or aerodynamic resistance.

waynesulak

Glad you like 28s better than 25s. Let look at the logic here.

25mm tires feel good to you.
28mm tires feel much better to you.
Conclusion: increased width appears to be beneficial to you.
Logical next step is to try a little wider tire. So when are you going to try a high quality tire wider than 28mm?

It is not logical to assume the wider tire is bad without testing it.

DubT

What pressure did you run in the 25mm tires?

waynesulak

I looked at the ENVE site and if I have located the correct product the exterior width of the ENVE rims above is 22mm. Unsure of the inner width which is what impacts the width of the inflated tires when compared to other rims.

https://www.enve.com/wheels/road/45.aspx
https://www.enve.com/wheels/road/65.aspx

For comparison:
Zipp Firecrest outer width is 24.62 at the brake track.
Velocity Dyads have an outer rim width of 24.