bulldog1935

I love seeing moms and/or dads with kids on bikes on the greenways. I always expect kids to do unexpected things, because their world view is very close to them - with the right anticipation, I've stopped in 4' for them before. What I hate is hearing moms and dads yell at them for not pulling over - breaks my heart.

(then there is the people who yell at their dogs - how are you going to get your dog under control by yelling at it?)

Biker395 

That brings up an interesting point. I think that a lot of dispute about what is and isn't suitable behavior on a MUP depends on the MUP itself. There are those that are little more than glorified sidewalks ... others are quite wide. What's safe and courteous and what isn't depends on the MUP, the location on the MUP, the time of day, other traffic (foot and otherwise) and a lot of circumstances that are often lost on threads like this.

bulldog1935

I'll add another pet peeve on greenways. Large group rides (more than 3 together). Out of all our greenways, only one is acceptable for that. On all the others, traffic is too high. Inevitably 8 bikes pass a pedestrian on a bridge when you're coming the other way. They're on your pavement and mindlessly follow the bike in front of them.

1989Pre 

I think all mountain bikes should be prohibited from walking/hiking trails. What I mean by "mountain bikes" is more of an attitude or world-view than a bicycle design. These are the "type A" personalities, whose motto is "faster, more, louder".
The woods (or any natural environment) is my church. It is sacred to me. If I plan on being in the woods, I walk, slowly, to absorb and appreciate the experience.., until a mountain biker comes along and challeneges me for the trail.
Get off the bike and walk. Appreciate the beauty and fragility of nature.

B. Carfree

I also live by the kiddie right of way rule. It doesn't matter to me what a child is doing on a bike path, all I've got for him/her is a smile. If I have to dismount and walk a ways in order to not scare a child, that's fine by me. I want our youngest people to learn to love being on a bike (or walking) and will do whatever I can to help nurture that.

It is sad to hear parents scream at their children. Interestingly enough, the screaming parents are most often the ones wandering all over and not paying attention. When they realize someone is approaching, they immediately yell at their child, as though the child was somehow the reason the adults were four-wide across the road.

bulldog1935

I see your point, but it's also many rational-appearing parents who may not be close enough to grab their child.
I saw one kid right by his just dad just outmaneuver him to get away.

canklecat

Ditto, dogs and kidlets.

There are a few areas where the MUP runs very close to residential neighborhoods and I anticipate kidlets on bikes with families, couples walking (including older folks on canes and walkers), dogs, etc.

I enjoy seeing other folks enjoying the MUP, and am one of those annoying guys grinning like a fool while riding because it's often the best part of my day. I nod and wave quite a bit, especially with the kids.

I always assume it's my responsibility to slow down to accommodate them, not the other way 'round. Kidlets are wobbly and may dart unexpectedly across the path -- not necessarily out of carelessness or inattention, but they simply haven't developed full balance and control. And older folks walking with canes or walkers may stumble easily -- one reason why my mom avoids crowded public places where she gets nervous if joggers, skaters or cyclist pass too closely. And to her, "closely" is within 10 feet, depending on speed. There are plenty of other places on the trails where I can safely ride faster.

While there are a few irresponsible people with dogs, I'm more impressed by the really well trained dogs. They're practically invisible because they don't draw attention to themselves. And one guy in particular works hard with his dog on training. I've seen him around various parts of the trail and park, sometimes separated from his dog by 50 yards or more, reinforcing training. When I see that dog "alone" on the unpaved path alongside the paved path I know its master is near by working on visual commands or vocal commands just out of sight. It's quite impressive to see how that dog is absolutely zeroed in on its master and doesn't flinch when cyclists and joggers zip by.

And a couple of fellows who fish the stream have dogs roaming freely, but the dogs immediately rejoin their masters when other people approach, and sit next to their masters until the cyclists, joggers or walkers pass, then resume their usual dogged investigations into nearby scents. That sort of careful behavior doesn't happen accidentally.

BlazingPedals

This is a good rule to go by. Don't continue the cycle (pun intended) of abuse.

bulldog1935

I raised a bunch of good heel hounds myself, and really enjoy seeing well-trained dogs on the trail.
They possess self-confidence and are spook-proof - qualities that untrained dogs don't have.

BlazingPedals

I tend to stay away from paths/trails; because they're not meant to be personal training grounds, they're parks. And in a park you should expect that a significant number of people will be relaxing, meandering, visiting, ... everything except following the 'rules of the road.' Rather than fume over the dog-walkers, wandering kids, and oblivious adults, I just let them have the path and I ride elsewhere.

John_V 

Just got done reading this thread and thought I might clear up some of the original confusion as to what HawkOwl posted since I was the person with him that almost got his a$$ run over by this inconsiderate idiot.

The incident occurred on a very popular rail trail, at a very busy trail-head that has restrooms on one side and picnic tables on the other. There were quite a few people walking around between the restrooms and picnic tables. It's not an area that you use as a speed zone. We stopped to use the restroom and take a break as it was our turn-around point and I really needed to go.

HawkOwl had started to slow down and instinctively unclipped and placed his foot down. This is a rather common thing for first time recumbent trike riders who are used to riding DF bikes, and not something that was a stupid move on his part; even if he thinks it was. The same thing has almost happened to me, on a few occasions, when I first started riding my wife's trike. Several of the people there, including myself, went to help back the trike's cruciform off of his leg, which was pinned underneath it, when the rider came by at a speed too fast for the condition. The approach to the area where this happened is long, straight and flat, giving the rider more than ample time see that there was a problem ahead. There was absolutely no reason for him to continue toward us at the rate of speed he was traveling. He only came to apologize after someone stopped him and told him what was going on. Had he slowed down and gone around us safely, this entire incident would not have happened.

I ride MUPs daily and they are designed for "public" use. Unless you are the only one on the MUP at the time, they are not meant to be your private race track so you can break your Strava segment times or be KOM of the MUP. While there are MUPs that are designed for speed, such as the one Amanda Coker is using to break the women's world annual distance record, they are still public pathways and as such, riders should adjust their speed accordingly.

bulldog1935

thanks for the enlightenment.
Several of our paths have get-off-and-walk barricades at intersections that busy.

inconsiderate individual - it alliterates just as well and gets the point across.

bulldog1935

I had a really fast greenway ride today because the trails were all but deserted due to our s. Texas winter weather. 50 degrees, overcast and low humidity - it was great.
I began in the middle, went to one end, crossed back and went back to the other end.
Near that 3/4 turnaround, I could see a mother ahead through the trees herding 2 small kids, so I rang my first announcement bell, and another as I approached closer, and of course I slowed way down to ride by them.
The mother apologized. I told her no, you guys have a blast.

On my way back, the mother did something really cool - she did nothing. She didn't lunge for her daughter on the tricycle or yell at her.
She left her alone to broaden her own horizons.
As I was about to pass the little girl I gave a soft ring and she looked over her shoulder to see where I was.
Clearly, the mother felt safe with my awareness of her daughter.

rydabent

I guess I would disagree some with that statement. I have been a member of the local bike club for 30 plus years. I find for the most part they are really good people to know. But then the club is a riding and touring club. The jerks you mention are pretty much the fully kitted egotistical would be racer boyz.

rydabent

If other were riding safely and with in reason, NO ONE was in danger. Ride alert.

gringomojado

You are so correct!

gringomojado

At leastthe mother wasn't absorbed in her "smart" phone!

Loose Chain

Did you have an orange triangle utility vehicle sign with a flashing light? Beware of wide load?

Just joking, hope your leg is okay. I am sure that hurt and yes your leg is more important than somebody trying for a PB on a MUP.

Runners wave, motorcyclist wave or give the sign, Jeepers give the Jeep Wave, boaters sound their klaxon, aviators wag their wings, cyclist, nope. I learned a long time ago, bicyclists are mostly not friendly and the forums are reflective of that.

J

bulldog1935

most greenway/MUP cyclists are very friendly, but I have to agree the guys looking like they stepped out of a magazine are wearing something on their sleeve.

70sSanO

I almost exclusively ride MUPs as I just don't want to hassle with traffic at my age. There will always be a speed issue, but to be honest when I was younger I went out of my way not to ride MUPs. I used to be embarrassed to ride on a MUP as those trails really were never designed for any serious cyclist.

I have to admit, I have ridden some of them too fast, never endangered anyone, but definitely not safe. I disdain anyone who is running Strava on a MUP. They need to man up and ride with the big boys.

John

bulldog1935

Not exactly trying to take exception with you here. I've only met one guy who admitted to Strava competition on the greenway. (Strava doesn't interest me - I'm riding for me and my state of health - I'm competing with my choice of gears on the bluff climbs.) We had a really nice ride together, great conversation, and he proved to be one of the safest greenway riders I've ever been around, making very slow and conscientious passes.

1989Pre 

I think a maximum speed of 5-7mph would be reasonable on M.U.P's. I can admit to having ridden faster (up to 20mph), but only in straight-aways when no others were in sight. This does not make my actions right, and I would certainly understand if speed limits were imposed.
I would mostly agree with Jim I's description of M.U.P.'s as leisure parks.
I think what boy racers (like myself) need is a local velodrome, so that we can get our ya-ya's out, when needed.

bulldog1935

all mup/greenways are not created equal, and happily, they're not all used equally. At 5-7 mph, you'll get passed a lot - even by runners.
The good news is riding the whole distance will burn the same amount of calories no matter your speed.

Biker395 

Oy ... I think it a rare MUP that would justify a maximum speed of 5-7 MPH. There are quite a few runners that go faster than that. And remember, the maximum speed is the maximum speed under any condition, even at 4AM when there would be virtually zero pedestrians.

All MUPs are not created equal. Some are very wide, have terrific sightlines, and are very safe to ride on at speeds well in excess of 5-7 MPH. Others, at particular times of the day, are so crowded with people, you'd be better off getting off an walking. I ride to work on a bike path that has occasional pedestrians (they are legal for pedestrians, as there is "no adequate adjacent pedestrian facility"), and I do it perfectly safely at 16+ MPH.

One of my pet peeves is when cities enact speed limits on MUPs either without doing any kind of engineering analysis or speed study. We have an 8 MPH speed limit on a MUP near me that was based on a statement from a citizen at a meeting that he knows of another MUP in another county with an 8 MPH limit (yes, I was there when it happened). Never mind the two paths are entirely different in pedestrian use, bicycle use, dimension, and just about everything else.

What is and isn't a safe speed on a MUP shouldn't be determined by guessing. It should be based on engineering standards or a speed survey, just like any other public thoroughfare.

1989Pre 

A few riders who insist on going fast on M.U.P.'s can spoil it for all of us. While the conditions (usage, sight-lines, etc, do vary) as Bik has noted, we can not always depend on all of our fellow riders to ride at or below a responsible pace, as conditions warrant. This is why, maybe unfortunately, speed limits should sometimes be imposed. Of course, laws and regulations like this are not passed until a 2-year-old gets knocked over and a still-clipped-in rider hits the dirt doing 14mph on a saturday morning at 10:00am.
Let's all keep our speed down and stay alert and considerate, so that we don't need to resort to speed limits.