bbbean 

For that matter, not every shop NEEDS to cater to the "average cyclist". There are a host of niche markets that are served by specialty shops catering to their unique needs. Consider ethnic restaurants, lingerie shops, Christian book stores, vegan grocery stores, guitar shops, etc.

Who is an "average cyclist"?

bbbean 

Guilty as charged.

TiHabanero

The other end of the spectrum is my sister in law that bought a 3000 dollar bike, rides it 100 miles a year at most attaining speeds of 10-12 mph. Yep, clipless, sausage shorts, helmet, day-glo vest, lights, pump, bag, tools, etc. The whole shooting match. Got it 4 years ago and there is under 500 miles. The salesman got a customer with illusions of grandeur. She has yet to ride this year. She didn't come to my shop because she knew I would not sell her a three thousand dollar bike, and she wanted what she wanted. Her husband is no different. Has a 3000 dollar Salsa and has ridden it once since he got it 4 years ago.

To each his own, my friend.

indyfabz

I'm serious. Not average. So I have had my road bikes built for me since 2004. Don't hate me because I am an elitist.

Troul 

like performance cars; oem's are not going to mass produce 1000hp two seater muscle cars, instead they mass produce vanilla vehicles for those looking to go from point A to point B & option the average consumer with comfort features to enhance the experience. For the minority that will buy the speed demon, the oem will draw them in... especially since those with the fast cars will also have a want for something that will not rattle the gold fillings outta the teeth.

Doctor Morbius

As an average cyclist, an average person of average height (5'9") with an average IQ and average grades and a hybrid enthusiast I'd say, "yes, bike shops are selling what the average Joe wants."

Living the dream of mediocrity.

jefnvk

Yep. I know which shop around me I would start at if I wanted a MTB, if I wanted a touring bike, if I wanted a race or Tri bike, if I wanted a BMX, or if I wanted a fat bike. Many, but not all, also cater to "average" in some way, and the shops that only cater to "average" jsut don't seem to be as well off.

Nah. I'd drive a Shelby GT350R everyday if I could!

Troul 

Winterbeaters would be a Zr1 & a gt3rs. Implant teeth instead of deal with fillings.

ph0rk

livedarklions

As someone who rode his first two solo centuries on a comfort bike, I have a somewhat different take on this. I think a lot of the talk of the limits of upright bikes is driven by people who really have no experience riding them any distances. I'm constantly being told by people who ride far fewer miles than I do that if I had the bike they ride, I would ride more miles.I can't even grasp the logic of that.

I've no idea why these "what's wrong with the bike industry" threads keep popping up. I'm seeing more and more bicyclists out there every day, most of them riding pretty hard on bikes that a lot of the people posting here would turn their noses up at. Every morning, those department store bikes get a lot of non-spandex people to work, and kids to school.

If LBS go to a high-end only strategy, and get entirely out of the sub-$1000 bikes as seems to be happening in a lot of places, expect a lot of them to disappear in the next economic downturn. That will cut them out of a huge segment of the market and they already can't compete on the low end. So basically, they're now giving up on people who want something better than department store bikes but don't care about status and "high performance" features , and Dick's and the online retailers will be happy to take that segment from them permanently. Going to a luxury bike only strategy will work when the economy is hot, but it won't leave you with a lot of options when that segment inevitably cools off.

Matt74

hillyman

Nope. It's not like there's a secret bunker where all the bikes we really want are being withheld from us. By average what do you mean? Average new rider may think he needs a cushy seat. The experienced average cyclist buys a bike that fits style of riding he wants. There aren't any average cyclists all wanting the same bike. Its what they want or think they want. If there's a bike people will buy the LBSs will carry it. Supply and demand. This is just a rehash of resurrected "Lifestyle " thread going around in circles. There's more choices in bicycles now than there's ever been. What more do you want?

Maelochs

A lot of the posters here probably grew up riding bikes that weighed between 35-55 pounds. I spent a lot of years on a Schwinn Suburban (42 lbs) and never thought about the weight. And i grew up in an air with hills.

The obsession with weight is a marketing tool. Bikes for competition were made ever lighter, but only the tiniest percentage of people compete. But to sell more bikes, manufacturers needed "bicycle heroes," and racers were the obvious candidates. Also ... about this same time the muscle car craze was happening---"performance" suddenly meant something more than "transporting one in comfort and with convenience reliably" and came to mean "traveling at speed unsafe on open roads."

Sure, lighter is more efficient .... but several generations of people grew up riding and loving bikes which were unbelievable heavy by today's standards. All those "English racers" and drop-bar "10-speeds" which fed the first U.S. cycling boom .... weight 35 pounds or so. Now that is considered heavy for a full-suspension big-drop mountain bike.

A 30-pound bike is not "too heavy." Because it might have a step=through frame, it needs more material to be strong enough. Because it is Not made out of high-dollar materials, that material is weighty. But most people don't want to spend $500 for a bike, let alone $1500. They want to spend $150--maybe. That is why 75 % of the people who buy bikes, buy bikes from Walmart.

I cannot lift my car off the floor. Is it too heavy?

As for wide soft saddles ... most people don't have and never will have the leg strength or the core strength to hold their weight off the saddle on a bike. Either they sit upright, or they lean forward with too much weight on the hands and no matter what, riding a bike hurts.

A "supportive saddle" only works if most of the weight is supported by the legs. And most riders don't ride that way----and cannot.

A too wide, too soft saddle will indeed cause pain and discomfort—after a number of miles. But most people aren’t going for rides that long. Most people who ride a bike are going to ride for half an hour or a mile.

I think they don’t get ridden because people find out that cycling isn’t as much fun as it looked on TV.

A lot of exercise equipment—as you say—goes unused. People buy it aspirationally—it looks good on TV, they think they are going to have fun, play, get in shape, whatever—and then the volleyball net, tennis rackets, various exercise machines … all sit in closets and garages because most people cannot develop new habits which take a lot of effort and show results over a long period of time … or simply aren’t as fun as they seemed.

Because you work where you work, you see people who have already self-selected as More interested in cycling than the people who casually buy Walmart bikes. People who come to a bike shop already had decided they want to invest More in cycling … but that doesn’t mean they will like it more. It doesn’t mean they will stick with it more. It just means they have more money and are willing to spend more money to try cycling.

The idea that if they only had the “right” bike that they would then Love cycling like we do … False. It is the same with exercise equipment, exercise programs …. People who want to exercise will use whatever equipment is around, or even no equipment, and will still do it. Others get gym memberships and never go.

It isn’t the equipment.

I don’t think people want a “flavor of the month” bike. They want to by a bike to try cycling. And yes … most, like most exercise equipment, end up in a garage or closet. People try new restaurants, new recipes, watch new TV shows, listen to new music … and most of it doesn’t stick, because peple are creatures of habit, and because people, as individuals, have different tastes and not everything strikes each individual’s taste.

Why worry? Why do we keep wanting to put people into the box We describe as “cyclist”? The people who ride around the neighborhood for half an hour after dinner three times a week are equally “cyclists,”—and they want those big wide saddles and step-through frames and all that.

jon c. 

I find hybrids to be somewhat tortuous. That upright position is hard on the back and the bars cause me wrist pain in short order. Drop bars are much more comfortable. Maybe that's because I grew up with them.

Colnago Mixte

That's why I think starting a USED sporting goods store seems like such a brilliant idea for a business, that stuff is so expensive new, but much of it is almost completely unused and can be had for the taking.

jefnvk

No, I don't. I genuinely think most people buying a bike, like buying golf clubs or ski equipment or fly fishing gear, love the idea that they are going to regularly cycle, and then life happens and they don't. Or they dont like it. Or, no matter how perfect of a bike you pick them, won't get through breaking in their body to the sport before giving up because it is too hard.

To be completely honest, an upright hybrid is more or less what the "average" person should consider as a first bike. It gets them used to cycling in a far more natural way. As someone else mentioned, there is this farcical notion that one can't cycle long distance on an upright bike, well my first metric century was done on one. My wife still does 40 mile events on hers, a distance greater than most average people are ever going to consider. I met a guy this summer in the middle of a 6000km tour running flat bars, while it was a really nice Koga, it was still a hybrid geometry and not light.

I'm not really sure what you think people should buy, though. They don't need tortorous drop bars, they don't need hybrids, they don't need MTB, and cruisers and step thrus are just ill conceived, what would you actually sell them

Most of my bikes are still closer to the 30# mark than the 20#. The Mazama with racks and fenders is about 27#, never weighed the fatty but it has to be right at 30#, the Scott and Schwinn are about 32#. The Univega is 21#, and is my least ridden bike.

FWIW, not only can I lift them all, they all go on my roof rack. Emperically, I don't think a bike around 30# is an impediment to cycling.

Eh, Ive got a chain of them near me, they aren't as glamorous as one would think. I'm convinced they only survive by also selling new equipment, most of the used stuff is geared towards children who need a new set every year while growing. Most of the adult stuff is utter crap that I'd never wear.

JonathanGennick 

I'm reminded of the time I bought cross-country skis with metal edges on them for track skiing. Those skis were terrible! I suffered two winters before coming to my senses. People buying bicycles, power tools, golf equipment, whatever, make the same sort of mistakes.

Colnago Mixte

I did see a place in Sacramento advertising on CL that they had lots of used cycling equipment. They had many racks of jersies (which I DON'T need any more of) and a whole bunch of cycling shoes. The shoes really caught my attention. If I can get a nice, gently used $300 pair of SIDi's in my size for like $20-30, I'm in. I dread buying new cycling shoes because they're so expensive.

jefnvk

Fair enough, if you can get gently used in your size for that big of a discount. IME, those types of stores know the value of what they have tho, and its not the fire sale some expect. And thats after taking into account the pain of finding a shoe and size that fits your foot used. Tried it with hockey skates for a while, as they're also notoriously expensive new, just never panned out

As an aside, a place to look for those is REI garage sales. They always have a pile of barely used cycling shoes at mine, some have obviously not even had cleats installed, but again, its hard to stumble on a size and style I want.

Hypno Toad

I'd say you live in the wrong town. In Minneapolis, we have a few shops focused on bikes like Linus (no road bikes or MTBs), and most shops have something nice that isn't a tank.

mconlonx

There's more bike choice now in various niches than there ever was. An average person walking into a bikeshop can get exactly what they want, or pretty close to it.

And at least in the shop where I used to work, we would listen to what a customer said they wanted to do on a bike and steer them in the direction we thought most appropriate, with options either way. For example, if someone was looking for just a bike to get around on, we might start by showing them a hybrid (fitness) bike and go from there. Doesn't look comfy enough, how 'bout a comfort-style bike? Looking for more of a commuter bike? Well, there's accessories, or these other models that already come stock with rack, fenders, etc.

But yeah, price is a major sticking point and there's just no getting around that -- no way a shop can sell a quality bike at department store prices. And yes, who wouldn't want a very light comfort bike with top-line components, dirt cheap... but it just doesn't happen. So people balk at a $2k carbon fitness bike.

No getting around the fact that cycling involves work, actually moving one's legs. Also, exposure to weather. Wind and hills. Traffic. For some, the reality just doesn't match their expectations so it results in either a low-mileage used bike for sale or a garage decoration. People sometimes think that maybe an ebike is what they need, since cycling is too hard, but then balk at the price, "Jeez, for the same money, I could get a decent scooter!" Yes, yes you can. Or even a decent used motorcycle.

With bikes being marketed into every niche possible, whatever someone thinks they want for a bike is generally available. Whether or not the cycling experience meets their expectations is another thing, as is what they will actually pay for what they claim they want...

livedarklions

And I'm the other way around. The problem is that the "average rider" is a theoretical construct that doesn't exist in the real world. Our bodies probably vary in dimensions and physiology such that the positions just fit us and our riding styles differently.

livedarklions

BTW, lots of people get around just fine on big comfy saddles, just as has been done for over a hundred years. Butts come in a lot of shapes and sizes. I used to need a big comfy one myself until I got some muscle back there.

Ogsarg

I would agree that if a bike can't be lifted, it's too heavy but please tell me about a bike that can't be lifted.

I rode a city bike all over Paris that was heavier than anything I'd ever ridden. I didn't try to lift it but I'm sure I could have. I seriously doubt bike shops sell anything close that kind of weight unless it's a tandem or recumbent trike or some other oddity.

BTW, I put at least 20 miles on that bike as heavy and as upright as it was and I had a fine time. Thousands of people use them everyday. Some very fit and some obviously much less so and they all seem to manage.

For where I was and the riding I was doing I certainly would not have been as comfortable on a drop bar bike regardless of how little it weighed.

I just don't get how bike weight is so connected to satisfaction. For the average cyclist I think it means very little.

Phil_gretz

This is a good starting assumption...

You're as likely to find an "average" person on this discussion board, as you are to find a great white shark up the Mississippi River. They're both out of their element and obviously lost, and will soon succumb to the unsuitable environment.