shermo

So what we're saying is that people with low T should be able to boost their levels to 'normal'?

canuckbelle

If it's medically necessary, sure.

gsteinb

"we're" not saying that at all.

TheKillerPenguin

Under what circumstances is it medically necessary, and when should a patient be tested to determine whether or not he qualifies as medically needing testosterone? Does a guy working 60hrs a week, sleeping 4hrs a night, and training 15hrs/wk get to have testosterone treatments and race because his hormones are way low?

globecanvas

How about low HCT?

echappist

only if you are receiving dialysis or had your bone marrows zapped by chemo/radiation. otherwise no soup for you

Doge

Guy loses his testicles. How much T do we give him?
There are diseases that are corrected by most items on that list. Just that I don't trust over-correction, honest result or cheating will be avoided in many cases.

Enthalpic

According to WADA that would be considered a functional deficiency and would never qualify. According to the link teton posted recreational athletes, in the USA, might be able to get a TUE.

Functional androgen deficiency may be due to:
1. Severe emotional stress.
2. Morbid Obesity, untreated obstructive sleep apnea.
3. Overtraining, malnutrition/nutritional deficiency, eating disorders.
4. Medication – opioids, androgens, selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs), glucocorticoids, progestins, estrogens, medication-induced Hyperprolactinemia.
5. Chronic systemic illness (chronic organ failure, diabetes mellitus, malignancy, rheumatic disease, HIV infection, Crohn’s disease, inherited metabolic storage diseases).
6. Constitutional delayed puberty.**
7. Aging/Late onset hypogonadism (LOH).
8. Alcohol excess.

globecanvas

I suffer from aging!

TMonk

I suffer from being a regular, healthy 29yo male!

Sometimes I drink too much and stay up too late

shovelhd

Correct all you want, but no racing without a legitimate TUE. Period. End of story.

shovelhd

I hear that synthetic opiates like Tramadol combined with ADD meds like Ritalin are the thing now. Go hard, feel no pain, eyes wide open.

gsteinb

having taken tramadol I can't fathom how someone can race on that.

TheKillerPenguin

Scary, scary stuff.

cmh

Sorry KP, no cure for your bacne but rest.

cmh

Or do I have that backwards? Bacne goes away when you train hard? (Sorry for the off topic posts)

TheKillerPenguin

lol, it happened when i took my season break and went away after like a week, and hasn't come back since. Hormones doing hormone things.

gsteinb

things are also on the list because they act as masking agents

canuckbelle

Who determines whether testosterone is a medically necessary treatment? Well, I'd say an endocrinologist says so. If a rider has an endocrine condition where testosterone is part of that treatment, then I'm fine with it. That's obviously open for abuse, but so is everything. We have speed limits and that doesn't make it impossible to speed. I don't worry about a few people abusing something to prevent others from getting the treatment they need *and* for those people to still have a right to compete in sport.

gsteinb

if you're on T you shouldn't be allowed to race.

canuckbelle

Because why? Bodies aren't as simple as you're making them out to be.

https://socialdifference.columbia.edu...f%20Bounds.pdf

gsteinb

making them out to be simple? is that what passes for a philosophical argument where you teach? because I never said or indicated that.

globecanvas

Is the policy described in the paper the current policy? Female athletes are allowed to compete only if their testosterone level is below a maximum, similar to the HCT ceiling test. Anyone with levels above the specified maximum in either case is considered outside the biological bounds of a level playing field, regardless of whether the high level is endogenous or the result of doping.

canuckbelle

We're not talking about people above maximums. If it's "no T at all" then we're also talking about people *below* the bottom of ranges.

Saying "if you're on T you shouldn't be allowed to race." Gsteinb is indeed making bodies out to be pretty simple. If someone is below the normal healthy range for their sex...why no T at all and being allowed to race? It seems like you're saying "any T = unfair advantage," but that requires a very overly simplistic view of the physiology of T in bodies.

canuckbelle

Actually, the gender policy only applies to women for endogenous T. Above maximum for women (which this paper criticizes as insufficiently based on sound science), everything endogenous is fair game for men. There's no maximum T above which men can't compete (if it's endogenous).