PeteHski

Well I’m fairly sure the amount your bike rocks depends mostly on how much resistance there is to the rocking force. For example a rigid indoor trainer will rock far less than an outdoor road bike for the same force input.

You are also going to have to convince me that the gyroscopic forces are actually significant in determining how much your bike rocks, especially at low climbing speeds. Those gyroscopic forces are not large relative to the forces you are exerting. Plus we are talking about differences in the order of a few hundred grams on the wheels.

One Wheel

A rigid indoor trainer will have a threshold resistance that a freestanding bike won't have.

Eric F 

I would be interested in seeing some factual information on this. The previous comment about heavier wheels having a greater gyro effect means that they require more force to lean over...wouldn't this also mean that they would be more resistant to being leaned over, and the bike will stay more upright? The leaning of a bike during standing pedaling is a reaction to the pedaling forces.

PeteHski

What does this mean?

jonathanf2

Feel free to DM me, there's a whole other world of weight weenie bike components outside the mainstream of cycling. Being a weight weenie doesn't have to be very expensive!

One of my current disc road bikes clock in around 6.9kg with both cages, computer mount and pedals while running mechanical 11 speed Ultegra. Nothing fancy. The only areas where I cut significant weight over the standard stuff is going with a carbon crankset and opting to stay with clincher tires + TPU tubes (I don't like tubeless road tires). I have carbon wheels, but they're not even the lightest available. Plus my bike builds are daily riders, if I were to go full weight weenie, there's a bunch of ultra lightweight, but less durable components I could use.

Sheesh if I built a rim brake bike, I could probably do it in the 13-14 lbs. range!

axelwik

Yes, you wasted money because an aluminum spoon is lighter and cheaper.

axelwik

Anything that runs on fossil fuels is heavily subsidized. Can you imagine how much a gallon of gas would cost if the cost of wars over oil and healthcare costs from pollution were incorporated into the price?

smd4

Well, maybe not cruise ships. Took our first cruise last summer and was amazed at the amount of exhaust out of the stack, 24 hours a day, for four days.

One Wheel

Once you lean the bike over a couple of degrees on a trainer it takes a lot more effort to topple the trainer over. Off the trainer a few more degrees is easy. In terms of gyroscopic inertia working against horizontal motion, a trainer is a completely different and not comparable system.

axelwik

Not sure I understand what you're saying. Can you ellaborate?

smd4

That I don’t think cruise ships, which burn fossil fuel, are subsidized?

axelwik

Cruise ships run on fossil fuels, therefore they're subsidized.

smd4

How so?

axelwik

The diesel/fuel oil used to run a cruise ship is refined from oil taken out of the ground. Taxpayers pay for wars over that oil (Trillions of dollars in the past few decades alone), taxpayers pay for the majority of healthcare related to pollution caused by the burning of fossil fuels, taxpayers pay the cost of direct subsidies to the oil industry, the list goes on - google is your friend.

smd4

Yeah, that’s what I thought. Your idea of subsidies and mine differs.

Bye.

base2 

My daily rider (of late) is 14.4 pounds. It's due to save another 400-500 grams this September. What you are trading in price is reliability and performance gaurentees backed by real companies with guaranteed sound engineering and flawless execution.

There is no end to chinesium garbage available on Alibaba. I've seen it, touched it, and for enough money, installed it on customers bikes. Good luck to you. That is where I draw the line on where weight-weenieism stops. Onward! To where weight-weenieism begins!

Honestly, for myself it began with a set of 35mm Kenda Small Block 8's. I had swapped them out for some Vittoria Rubino Pro III Slicks and my world was changed. Of course, I didn't know then what I know now. But that was enough and the quest for a lighter bike has never been satiated.

Koyote

Your 'idea' is simply wrong. axelwik listed a few of the many subsidies given to fossil fuel production. There is no real debate about this among economists and energy policy experts, regardless of political leanings and affiliation. You can read more about it here and here, for starters.

smd4

Bye.

Koyote

So what is your idea of a subsidy, then?

tomato coupe

A key part of determining whether something is plausible (from a physics perspective) is calculating or estimating the magnitude of the effect under consideration. Without that critical step, you can't conclude whether something is or is not plausible.

Eric F 

But a titanium spoon gives a smooth and springy taste. Aluminum spoons are too rigid and give a harsh taste. For some people, the taste is worth the expense. As previously mentioned by indyfabz, purple is the pinnacle of titanium spoonage.

Atlas Shrugged

We have disagreed over many topics on these forums for a while however we have found a whole new area to explore, cruising! I have taken a few cruises (3) over the years. Caribbean, Mexican Riviera and Indian Ocean. Although I enjoyed the experience it felt like I was letting the old man in. How about you?

PeteHski

So on the trainer the bike just leans far less as you pedal. You don’t put in any extra effort to make it rock as much as your road bike. It feels different because the resistance to rocking the bike is an order of magnitude higher unless you have a rocker plate installed.

Gyroscopic inertia just makes your bike fractionally more resistant to leaning over. I don’t see how that requires more effort from the rider unless their aim is to rock their bike more than it naturally rocks under the load. The gyroscopic inertia just makes the bike fractionally more stable and is only really significant at high road speeds.

Trakhak

Dude! He said "Bye"! Twice!

Trakhak

Yes. It's tempting to impute effects of gyroscopic inertia to bicycle wheels that are just not there or are there but of trivial significance.

For instance, from this page:

[Gyroscopic forces are not important for the stability of a bicycle - as you can see if you read on below - but they help us to control the bike when riding with no hands. More important than anything is "the trail".]

Also, I'm not sure what the point is of suggesting that the opposition of gyroscopic forces to the forces generated by a rider in rocking the bike from side to side is bad or robs energy from the rider. It's like complaining that the starting block used for 100-meter dashes robs energy from the runner.