nickw

I don't understand....besides pinch flats, one of the primary reasons Tubeless is great is because of the reduction in punctures....if you have sealant of course.

dalava

The Pro Ones are nice compared to the Hutchinson offerings, but I am not too keen on their traction in bad weather, and the durability is not great; I've only got less 2000 miles out of the rear.

Old_Roadie

Yes, sealant does help reduce punctures. I used to run sealant. I could not get Fusion 3s to seal without sealant. The sidewalls leaked, at least back in 2011 they did. I also found out that sealant did not play well with Dura Ace 7900 Tls, and I was using CaffeLatex, which was NOT supposed corrode the rim. The rim did not 'Corrode', but it did 'Oxidize' the rim, at least that is what I was told by Effetto Mariposa, and Shimano.

So when the Schwalbe Pro tires held air without sealant I decided to try running them dry as a test. Works for me.
The second reason that I choose not to run sealant is that it dries up and is very messy and time consuming to clean when it is time to install new tires. And if you let it dry out in summer, you are out of luck, (which I did, yes I know, operator error), but you still have the residual to deal with.
Not saying others should go this route, just that I have had good luck with Schwalbe Ones, the original, not the Pro Ones) not running sealant. One flat in over 6K miles is not bad, IMO.
And I absolutely love the way they ride at 75 front, 85 rear.

Hope that helps.

nycphotography

Stopped by Boyd's and paid for my 28's yesterday... and had a nice chat about tire choices.

End of the discussion we ended up keeping regular Michelin Powers, but upping from a 23 to a 25 on the wider wheels. Main reason is that I like how fast Michelins roll, and they didn't really have any tubeless to suggest that would roll any faster. I still may end up running IRC RBCCs or Schwalbe Pro Ones though.

But nobody (industry wide) seems to have much on tire recommendations other than either "this is what I happen to use" or "just get something and run it". Which I find odd.

I put Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless 25's on my commuter (w Stans Grail disc wheels). FWIW, they measure a full 28mm wide on those wheels. I'll use a half bottle of Stan's per tire and see how the experience plays out.

nivekdodge

This may sound odd.., but does anyone have issues getting the beads to break? I have Boyd's with Pro 1's and if I need to get them off on the road it's difficult to say the least.

chaadster

As a small point of technical clarification, because words do get mixed up in people's heads, is that tubeless tires reduce flats, not punctures. I know that's what you meant to say, but I wanted to mention it up front so we're not confusing people later, as I will explain, when it will be important to distinguish between the two.

Like Old_roadie, I, too, have run tubeless without sealant (in the past), but I did it just to understand how the system worked, not in order to save weight or hassle or anything like that. I did it with Schwalbe One tires, and it worked fine, because those tires have an airtight lining (of butyl, IIRC) and do not require sealant for air retention (on a tubeless ready [TR] rim).

It's also true that a punctured tread-- here is where it's important to distinguish terms-- and casing will tend to "self-heal" behind small intrusions, by which I mean the tread will tend to close around an embedded object or close back together at the hole site, greatly reducing the rate of air loss compared to a punctured tube setup-- which we all know tend to flat very rapidly-- because there is no loss through the rim.

Having the air retention and flat-resistant pieces "in my back pocket" and knowing that I get few punctures, I did do a couple of rides, totaling just over 100 miles, successfully on the Ones without sealant, which assured me of the basic tubeless properties. I do not think there is a compelling reason not to use sealant, however, and I have used it since that test run in '13.

Having also mounted Pro One (and S1, which share the same casing construction) tires without sealant, with very little sealant, and with the recommend amount of sealant, I'm confused by Old_roadie's claim he is running that tire without sealant, because in my experience, and according to Schwalbe's literature, that tire does not have an airtight lining, leaks down quickly, and requires sealant for sufficient air retention.

PhotoJoe 

Did they by chance mention when my new wheels are going to ship?

PhotoJoe 

Nevermind. I just got the confirmation the wheels shipped today! I'm amazed that it was this quick after a BF deal.

Old_Roadie

I lose about 3 lbs of air a day and I am not using sealant. I currently have 6,141 miles on Schwalbe tires without sealant. and I have not experienced any quick air lose. Yes, I have also read that these tires do not have airtight lining. I do have 391 miles on the Pro 1 tire that I am running on the front, and I have had the same results, fairly typical air lose compared to a tubed tire. But the jury is still out on the Pro 1 without sealant.

To each their own, works for me. Not trying to sell the no sealant idea, just my experience.

Having been an fairly early adapter to road tubeless in 2011 my understanding is that Shimano and Hutchison were the 2 companies that collaborated on road tubeless, and that the system was to not use sealant. (and Shimano's position). I even went to Irvine and talked with several people on the subject. When you get a Shimano rim the tubeless valves do not have a removable core because they do not want you to use sealant in their rims. And from personal experience I can tell you that the Shimano do not like sealant. I also had a set of the 7850 SLs, and they same 'oxidation' occurred on those. I currently am running the Ultegra 6800 TLs without sealant and zero issues.

The funniest thing to me is that the early Hutchinson Fusion 3s leaked at the side wall. And these were the tires that, from what I read, were the ones that were supposed to be air tight. Go figure.

chaadster

Have others had success running P1s w/o sealant? I mean, yeah they pump up, but leakdown is substantial and noticeable over the course of a ride. I don't know that I have a pump accurate to 3lbs, so I'm talking 10s of psi.

I'm really curious if others have noticed this, because I'm wondering how to square that against my experiencewith P1 and S1 w/o sealant on two different sets of rims, all which leaked down fast. One of those rims held air in Ones w/o sealant just fine, so I'm not inclined to think it is a rim issue, and both are tubeless specific anyway.

Maybe it's a bead design issue, and P1s work on some rim designs better? Continuing that line of thought, how did you determine the Hutchis were leaking at the sidewall? Can you tell where the leakage is on your P1s or Ones?

I'm honestly curious and confused!

nycphotography

If you want to find leaks - soapy water works wonders.

For slow leaks, submerge in water and wait for a bubble to form and grow.

Even a very slow leak will give a bubble every 5 to 10 minutes. You just have to wait patiently.

chaadster

I know how to find leaks. My questions were to Old-roadie's methodology specifically, so that I can understand their claims.

Steepndeep

I've been using Bontragers. I think model is R3. 25mms and 26mms. They have been great. Initially leaked a bit, but once settled in, they hold air real well, ride nice and have not punctured over about 1500 to 2000 miles.

revchuck 

I've used IRC Roadlites and Specialized S-Works Turbo tubeless. I'm pleased with the IRCs - mine are the 25s and they measures 27mm+ on Ultegra 6800 wheels. The S-Works tubeless are race tires, and less robust than non-race tires; I scraped the sidewall on one putting it in a bike stand and it developed a bulge at that point. (I replaced them with the non-tubeless S-Works Turbos, which are more robust.) My next try will be with the tubeless Roubaixs.

If your bike can fit them, Specialized just came out with a 700x28 S-Works Turbo 2Bliss which have the same price as the non-tubeless versions - $55 each. They're the least expensive tubeless road tires I'm aware of. Unfortunately, the only bike I have that would fit them has non-tubeless wheels.

DXchulo

I tried some Hutchinson Fusion 5s and wasn't happy with those. They felt great, but the rear didn't even last me 1500 miles. I was getting punctures all the time. Sure, sealant fixed most of them, but there's still a mess to clean up and that stuff isn't free.

I switched to Hutchinson Intensive and am much happier. More durable with more flat resistance.

I'll try Maxxis ReFuse next. That's what I was riding before I went tubeless and for the most part I was happy (except for thorns, which the tubeless version should fix). I just wish they made a 28.