I don't know anything about Dawes Brand Bikes,But I'll Stick up for BikesDirect....I bought a 2007 model of this...

Motobecane 700 HT Mountain Bike
Custom 7005 Aluminum Trail-Tuned POWER STAY frame, box section chainstays, bi-axial gussetted downtube, sculpted rear dropouts with replaceable rear derailleur hanger, 2x H2O bosses, International Standard rear disc mounts
Fork RockShox Dart 2 Adjustable with Hydraulic damping and 100mm travel
Crankset TruVativ 5D Aluminum Triple 22/32/42T 175mm (TruShift Rings)
Bottom Bracket Sealed Cartridge
Pedals ATB Beartrap (metal cages)
Front Derailleur Shimano Deore Mega 9 top swing
Rear Derailleur Shimano Deore XT long cage (traditional action - not rapidrise)
Shifters Shimano Deore Mega 9 Speed STI Rapidfire Pods (27 speeds total)
Cassette/Freewheel Cassette 11-32T 9 Speed Hyperglide
Chain 9 Speed Z9000 Super Narrow
Hubs Skye DiscSpecific Aluminum (black) Sealed Bearing mechanism
Spokes Stainless Steel
Rims WEINMANN SP-17 or WTB Rims (NoChoice) Double Wall Aluminum
Tires WTB Velociraptor Blackwall 26 x 2.10
Brakes TEKTRO AQUILA Mechanical Disc Brakes with Multi Pad Angle adjustments
Brake Levers Tektro for Disc
Headset Cane Creek Internal Sealed bearing VP A42E 1.125 inch
Handlebar Skye Comp Aluminum Riser
Stem Skye Comp Threadless Aluminum
Tape/Grip WTB Dual Compound
Saddle WTB Speed V with comfort groove
Seat Post Skye Aluminum Micro-Adjust
Seat Clamp Alloy w/QR
Sizes 15, 17, 19, 21, 23 inch
Colors Polished Silver

fast Shipping, and considering that I have to Drive 100 Miles to buy anything except Schwag-Mart junk. At 4499.00 + Shipping a Very Good Bang For The Buck!! If I upgrade anything it will be the Wheelset....The most Common Upgrade in Bikedom!!!

Excuse me, $4499?

We have seen this debate way more than is necessary over the past few years.

I have no problem with BD bikes (I even have a teammate who podiums on his regularly), but BD is hardly a role model for the straight-talk business model.

Saying that frames are made in the same factory as high end name brand models implies nothing but that they are made in the same factory. Quality control, batches, lots.....heck, even lines.....could be all over the board and and still come from the same factory.

It is just nonsense to imply that the frames are the same quality just because they are made at the same factory. If they are the same quality because they are the same frame, well, that is another matter. But as of yet, BD has yet to say that. Instead, he seems to purposely imply just that with sideways and leading statements.

Just as it is nonsense to state that the msrp on a generic bike is the same as it is on a high end name brand. I work in retail and I know that house brands cannot command the same price as name brands, so it is rediculous to imply that the msrp is the same. We have an outdoor gear distributor here in the west named Pedersens that pulls the same crap.

The reason Bikes Direct bikes are 20% cheaper than the ones at local shops is that the local shop assembles and adjusts their bikes. BD bikes are not assembled of adjusted. I've seen couple dragged into our shop. No worries, however, we fixed and adjusted everything for $100. Of those BD owners could have just come in and we'd of hooked them up with a great fitting bike for a little more than Bikes Direct and it have a warranty and a free tune up after a few hunderd miles (that's another $60 for all you BD shoppers)

As an industry guy, only a sucker would buy a bike mail order, sight unseen.

for hybrids that is probably true, however for a road bike, you guys don't have "mid level" prices... BD seems to have that covered... someone who buys a midlevel bike tends to want to have something solid. Mind you we, as a consumer, know we aren't getting the same thing as a name brand in terms of "quality", quality being defined as high level components/frame with an eye toward being a "weight weenie".

if you guys sold something akin to a bikes direct level bike with your service, I would pay more for that than I would pay for a bike "online" but I won't go double the price of a bikes direct level bike... I am not a racer, I am a recreational/commuter cyclist.

midlevel guys like me also are willing to "fiddle" with fit if need be... it will also be useful for what I like /don't like about fit, as I would like to get a "name brand" bike at some point in the future...

Learn to spell, learn to not make ad-hominem attacks and next time someone starts a thread about your company kindly keep your advertising out of it.

You're behaving like a 13 year old.

And when I say that the Dawes frame is crap I mean, when compared to most other IBD brands. When your bikes get reviewed on a regular basis by cyclingnews.com, velonews, bicycle magazine, bicycling.com and you get actual mention on BRAIN then I'll take your company seriously. Until then I will maintain, and continue to support the notion that you're just in it for the money. Otherwise you'd have a storefront and actually interact face-to-face with your customers.

I'm glad there are happy customers of bikesdirect.com and I wish them the best with their purchase.

In the long run I believe that your company does a disservice to the bike industry as a whole.

Kind of like Wal-Mart.




And I'll say it again... I think that this is the wrong subforum for a review of a bicycle where 2/3 of the review is a cut-and-paste of text from the purchasing site. If a review was truly the intent I would have preferred that the reviewer put the bike through a year of riding under actual commuting conditions and then return a review that answers concerns about the bike as a viable commuting rig. This should include discussion of the addition of accessories such as racks, fenders, and lights and how well the bike as a system held up. As well as how well the component choices made by the OEM held up and whether the frame handled an actual winter or not.


Then I'll take you seriously.

I actually own a bikesdirect Windsor Tourist and have put 1200 miles commuting on it. My bike makes a great commuter in my opinion, but it costs more than the Dawes Lightning. However, I ended up having to sink a good bit of additional money in tools, parts, and accessories that I wouldn't have if I had purchased at a bike shop. I was talking to a friend recently who is a triathlete. He gets free work done on his bike often because he is a regular customer who bought a high end racing bike from the shop. In my case, I ended up with all the tools and learned to do all adjustments and repairs myself because I got my bike through mail order. I know how to do a lot more mechanical work than my triathlete friend, so that is an advantage I guess. I would only encourage someone to buy from bikesdirect if they are interested in learning to work on their own bike. Otherwise, you are better off buying from a reputable local shop where you can get service.

As for the quality of my bike, it has held up OK so far. The tires that came with it weren't great, but OK. I replaced them recently with Schwalbe Marathon tires because I started getting regular flats after 1000 miles. The brake pads weren't great either, but OK. I recently replaced them with Koolstop salmon pads. The paint job on the frame chipped when the bike fell over onto a bike rack, but I think overall the paint job is good. My bottom bracket failed quite early, after only about 600 km of riding in fair weather. The bottom bracket was a Chin Haur model, and I replaced it with a Shimano UN54 that has held up fine. I would caution anyone looking a bikesdirect specs to note where component specs are not shown, or are listed as "Windsor" or "Dawes" brands, etc. Those are the places where components are generic. On my bike, the headset and bottom bracket specs aren't shown by bikesdirect because they are both Chin Haur models. The wheel hub specs aren't shown for my bike because they are Joytech, and I have no idea who made my rims. Competing bikes from Surly, Jamis, REI, etc. list complete specs.

Just to set the record straight:

I can not spell. However, I did go to school and got 3 college degrees; including a Ph.D. And I did teach as a professor for 10 years in two different universities. So I do not feel too bad about my lack of spelling ability.

Dawes frames are not crap. They have the same QC in the same factory as thousands of frames that end up marked Trek, Specialized, and Cannondale.

Motobecanes have and are reveiwed all the time. This year all reviews are on the new Ti models. We never submit Dawes bikes for review; as that is not part of my long term plan.

BRAIN needs news articles and would publish whatever I sent in. But that is inside baseball stuff and would not help in my long term plan.

I do have store fronts. I do not know why you think I do not. I sell thousands of bikes in my stores. For at least 10 years I was the largest dealer in the USA. Now I have more focus on internet sales; which I feel are serving many cyclists in a way that they can not be served in stores. Many customers buy bikes from us that they can not get anything like in their area. And many buy to save money; and some of these feel they have saved over $2000 on a single bike purchase.

Thousands of our bikes have gone way more than a single year of commuting; and hundreds of people have posted all over the net about that. Including mant coast to coast rides.

I am sorry you object to the fact that the exact same quality bikes sold by LBS are available to consumers on the net at less money. I am sorry you do not see that several requirements of cyclists that can not be meet locally are indeed easily meet on-line.

Welcome to the future. A future of choices for consumers
I like choices

https://houston.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Repor...&firm=30000690

We do not respond to any BBB fillings for reasons I have posted before. The BBB is not a modern or fair way to evaluate businesses. And they take funds from businesses which are evaluated; thus coloring evaluations. Since they can not report statistics that are meaningful and can be influenced unfairly; I stopped playing their game over 15 years ago {even before starting our internet biz}

Those that understand statistics and the reporting system; will understand this.

Wow... thirty years in the bike industry? Three undergraduate degrees and a Ph.D.? Ten years as the largest dealer, in what I can only assume as bicycles, in the United States? Where DO you find the time?

Name your store fronts, give me addresses, phone numbers, or failing that give me the cities where you have storefronts, should you have any left.

How are your customers being better served by internet sales?

If you had storefronts your prices on your website would probably reflect that. By being higher than they are.

I give you points that you feel that you serve your customers well by giving them a choice. And I give you points that you feel you've given your customers a bicycle they couldn't get elsewhere. But, I will still contend that you've given them a non-choice. What record is there to set straight? You have your supporters here. You also have your detractors. And your current behavior is not winning over your detractors.



A thank you to m_yates for that useful review of his Windsor. If he's anything like me then the funds he spent on tools and the time he spent learning how to work on his own bike was worthwhile. But, if he spent a couple thousand on the bike purchase, plus shipping, plus the tools, plus the time in research needed to learn how to work on the bike; I think the average bicycle rider would have given up and been profoundly disappointed in bikesdirect.com.

A select quote from the BBB Houston website linked above.

To set the record truly straight. BBB takes a nominal fee to handle review and records keeping for those businesses wishing to be accredited.

I believe this is his store front and these are the locations.

https://cyclespectrum.com/page.cfm?pageID=12

Nope.

Actually it is.

It is. Look up Cycle Spectrum in the BBB. You can find some of the same contact information as with bikesdirect.com.

Scratch that... Source. I'm looking through us.bbb.org and any of the Cycle Spectrum locations listed by the BBB are either out of business (where they hold parity with what's on the cyclespectrum.com website) or unrelated to cyclespectrum.com with no mention of bikesdirect.com. The only way that the connection is supported is by cross-referencing the bikesdirect.com, cyclespectrum.com and the bbb websites which link the address 528 S Mason Rd to Bikesdirect.com (that has an unsatisfactory BBB rating), and that cross-references one instance of the same address on cyclespectrum.com.

here are my search hits on the bbb:

https://us.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.a...6-e4df22e6f371
https://us.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.a...6-e4df22e6f371

Now... I ask myself why does a company have two separate websites linked to itself through two addresses? And one address not listed in the case of cyclespectrum.com as a main contact address?

Now tell me I haven't done my research.

so obviously, his bike shop is a distributor for these bikes... now, my LBS carries more than one "brand" of bike... (trek, scott, cannondale)... why don't bike shops have the option of these midlevel bikes?

T'ell with it. As I've already said. The supporters of bikesdirect and the detractors of bikesdirect will never convince each other of their position. Having already seen bicycles purveyed by bikesdirect.com I will stand by my opinion that they are merely ok. Taken frame versus frame against say... my 10 year old Cannondale versus the Dawes in this thread I can strongly say that I'd ride my Cannondale with more confidence. And yes, I have actually beheld, wrenched on and took on a test ride the Dawes referenced in this thread. So, this directly states my opinion of this bicycle.

As for internet sales of bicycle frames? I think its a terrible idea. But, then again, I work for an IBD so I'm sure ya'll probably think my viewpoint is skewed. Performance Bike and Nashbar do a fine job supplying the cycling world with much needed components, gear and clothing. But, if you have to back up your bike sales with shaky claims, you've already lost my business.

It really sucks that I'm an informed consumer doesn't it?

c'ya'll later.

bikesdirect.com threads are always entertaining...the only ones that come close are ones with titles like "a wasp stung my face today" or "what is the strangest thing yelled at you".

If you look up Cycle Spectrum of Houston, it shows the same owner as bikesdirect.com and lists bikesdirect.com as one of the company web sites (in addition to cyclespectrum.com) see:

https://houston.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Repor...&firm=13002679

If you want further proof, a whois lookup of the owner of bikesdirect.com domain name is David Sander, who coincidently is listed by the BBB as the owner of Cycle Spectrum.

https://www.verio.com/whois/whois_res...ikesdirect.com

I'm done with detective work, but if someone wants to make an effort, I'm sure you can find connections between the owners of the domains bikesdirect.com, cyclespectrum.com, windsorbicycles.com, dawescyclesusa.com, cyclesmercier.com, motobecane.com, etc.

I'm off to ride my bike....

OK
you have not done your research
and you are not completely logical

I have several stores; everyone in the business knows that and it is all over the web

And Trek has several web sites and brands
And Performance has one than one web site and store name
At one time I had 6 stores in Austin with 4 different store names
Right now we have several web sites and several store names [in Jacksonville area - I have 2 store names and sell more bikes in Jaxs than any other LBS brand - so it seems to work ok]
When I was at Zales we had 5 different jewelry store names - worked finme

Nice thing is you can have different stores or web sites for different reasons
We are adding another selling site that will be very female friendly in September
We are adding another site that is custom bike oriented in 2009
And I am working with one of my long term employees that commuters a lot to develop a completely commuter oriented online store; for all stuff commuter related {in fact we are developing several new commuter models for this luanch}

There is plenty of more for you to do more research; and thanks to the internet it is easy to do.


But I really get the impression that you are most interested in promoting the LBS model over cycling in general - that is a problem if true.

Cyclists need choices - mass merchants, sporting goods stores, LBS, and internet sellers all provide some consumers with a way to fulfill their needs. No one distribtion method is covering the needs of all cyclists.

I like choices

Insult my Salsa Le Cruz would you!

I still like my second hand motobecane messenger.

Holds up to the rotten roads in new mexico.

All I did to it is to put Gatorskins and m520's ... and just ride the piss out of it.

I work for BMW, not bikesdirect

a bike is a bike is a bike

I read through this entire thread and the thing that I find amazing is, for the huge number of characters pounded out on the keyboard, 'bikesdirect' never once just comes forward and says, here are the web sites that I have and here is who they are directed toward. He also never actually comes forward and says here are the locations, with an address and heck maybe even a mapquest or google maps link so we could drop in and check out some bikes, of the storefronts that he currently has open.

The reasoning for the non-response to BBB complaints also sounds completely bogus. The only reason I can think of for a business to NOT respond to a BBB complaint and to deal with a customers problem (a customer who surely had contacted the company and gotten the run around) is that the sheer volume of complaints is so high that they would have to hire more staff to address them all.