https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yp32rEpecQ

Two cyclists with cameras demonstrate lane control techniques.

Gee, 20 cars pass in some 9 minutes... 3 of which pass while the cyclist is waiting to turn left... If I had that kind of traffic, I would never complain.

They should try this in an area where 20 cars are trying to pass in 3 minutes or less, during rush hour, on a street marked at 50MPH.

This was a "park ride."

Perhaps they could stay on "Ocean Blvd" (the 6 lane street) on a busy Monday morning and then reshoot the video.

Perhaps they can try Jamboree from Santa Ana to Newport Beach (near their area) that is 3 lanes wide, marked at 60MPH and has no bike lanes... control that on a Monday morning.

Oh and be sure to turn up the audio... so we can hear the reaction of motorists behind the cyclist.

Yeah, nice "control."

Nice video, Dan and Brian. I wish it were required viewing for all prospective motorists and bicyclists. It would be great to get it put into traffic school courses, as well.

I was interested that Dan often took the right tire track, as I frequently do, rather than the center of the lane, as HH would insist.

The lower the speed limit and traffic flow, the more I endorse the principles of vehicular cycling. It is at freeway-style high speed free merges and diverges where our opinions sometimes "diverge."

I do fully concur with gene's comments, above. Let's see a cycling training video shot on Jamboree Rd. when traffic is heavy, but still fast. The more I think about it, the more I realize that, except for horrendous air quality, I actually preferred transportation cycling in Los Angeles over San Diego. When I lived in the vast west central L.A. floodplain, with its tight grid of well-connected local streets, I could almost always chart an efficient route on 35mph or slower streets. In much of San Diego and southern Orange Counties, high-speed streets are sometimes all that is available. Speed kills -- physics is physics, there is less time for motorists to react, etc.

Basically the way I ride, but remember there is no 'control'.

Harsh

I think for 2 guys with a couple cameras, making a video like this as a service, they did a fine job.

Maybe they picked a quiet rode on purpose to show the techniques? Maybe?

Why don't you all go find a friend and shoot the same video on a busy street? I would bet that while it looked more "real" it would be more difficult to illustrate the techniques.

-D

I do not think we are being harsh at all. Dan and Brian are great guys who have given much of their valuable personal time and financial resources to the cause of cycling safety. I acknowledge this gift with profound gratitude. The video is quite good, and I have already stated that it should be viewed by motorists, cyclists, and law enforcement officers.

I would simply like to see the same route shot under fast and heavy traffic conditions, just as I would welcome a training video shot at one of our nightmarish fast freeway-style merges or diverges, again under fast and heavy traffic conditions, preferably into the rising or setting sun.

Seems like they're in a downtown area where they can keep up with the 22-24 mph pace of traffic. Try the burbs guys. You can do that, but you'll get honks, fingers, and buzzed.

There are times where I control the lane, but these guys never give up control. They also never seem to ride on no parking streets, heh. I wonder if cali has the as far right as practicable law. I'm beginning to loathe that law. I'll do it out of kindness, but what do I get out of it? The feeling that it's not so bad to illegally pass on the right at the intersection?

I don't think it even has to be at rush hour traffic. Just fast paced traffic would be nice to see. Maybe they have that video too?

They do keep up with that Chrysler for most of the ride. I've kept up with cars for a few blocks, but never for a significant distance.

John E

I should have clarified, I was mostly responding to Genec's tone in his post.

-D

ah, videotaping of weekend LCI strokefests!!

A 'feelgood' Bike101 video of slow speed, low volume traffic!

The joys of weekend pleasure riding with a buddy and a camera or two!

I loved the 'don't pass on right' FEARMONGERING they did, such orderly cyclists waiting in line!! what if traffic gets REALLY bad?

good lane positioning. how are we going to get all the bicyclists to do that again? the old folks, the timid, and the out of shape? and how will the motorists like that during weekday rush hour?

how would they have ridden on a well accomodated, major arterial with a buffered,vehicular bike lane and heavy traffic? I BET the LCI strokefest crew don't want to show THAT to the public!!

While it's easy to find things to criticize, I like the videos. I applaud the video-makers for at least advancing the argument by showing specific riding positions on specific roads. Watching the video, the streets look very much the ones I ride on every day, and they're riding pretty much the way I ride. I agree that they don't really show any tough situations -- traffic is slow, and where it's not there are ample passing opportunities.

I would be very interested in seeing video comparing competing riding styles in really tough situations -- where there are long stretches where passing is impossible, and the cars move at much greater speed than bicycles. I'm not sure any riding style works all that well in those conditions.

If those streets are anything like mine, there is no such thing as fast and heavy. Any appreciable volume and things start slowing down.

i think its a good video. show the folks how its DONE. They should show roads with good bike lanes & generally how to ride them, as well as roads with poor bike lanes & how to generally ride them, but that's asking a bit much from most LCI!

the advanced stuff is more ambiguous anyways.

I really like this kind of double camera set up for getting a feel of the whole picture.

I find lane control as shown in video really helps to make cycling in traffic an enjoyable experience. Here is 9min of mostly (except the first 1min) lane controlling on 45 and 40mph roads:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_87u2tPCemw

(edit: I counted 29 vehicles pass me in the first 2min, then stopped counting)

Al

I too think it is a great video... It shows how a cyclist can use vehicular cycling on the right streets... and frankly I have no problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is strict vehicular cyclists insisting that vehicular cycling can work anywhere and for anybody... And with that mantra... insisting that "all roads are bike lanes... "

I firmly believe that on higher speed roads the difference in speed between motor traffic and cyclists can make vehicular cycling "less than suitable... " and that if road engineers are going to insist on building near Freeway like conditions into surface streets shared by cyclists and pedestrians, provisions such as separated paths should be provided.

I feel that Vehicular Cycling works quite well on streets posted up to about 35MPH (my personal experience), and beyond that, it becomes increasingly difficult for cyclists to negotiate with motorists. (Forester says when there is a 15MPH difference... negotiation becomes "impossible.")

I feel that there are separated roadways for fast auto traffic and those are just fine... (limited access Freeways) but that should be the only place that motor traffic should be moving at those speeds...

I base all this not only on the speed issue, but also traffic density, roadway design, and driver distractions.

Which shows that this traffic situation is probably ideal for cycling... And perhaps not the reality that some of us face.

Come out here to the west some time... where 50MPH arterials are the norm... From Houston to Phoenix to LA and San Diego... fast and heavy are conditions that we see daily.

I think that some of the discussion is getting lost in the vagueness of language. That is, what does someone mean by fast and/or heavy.

A steady stream of traffic moving at or near 50MPH. No significant gaps. Traffic that is difficult to change lanes in while driving... much less bike.

While cycling in those conditions is certainly no picnic, wouldn't you agree that using VC techniques is the best way to handle it? Other than not cycling there at all, I don't see any other workable solutions, at least not in the present.

No, VC is not the answer... except for perhaps the best and highest skilled cyclists.

To proclaim that VC is for everybody and that anyone can do it under those conditions is turning a blind eye to reality... and certainly this does nothing to promote cycling... by telling cyclists to simply suck it up and do it...

We cyclists should insist on lower traffic speeds and well designed bikeways in the face of such motorways.

Oh, I agree. But if one is insistent on going out there and riding the road the way it is today, what technique would be safer than VC?

There isn't any other immediate technique available... changing of the roads and motoring habits will take time.

But the "road the way it is today" did not spring up overnight... so why should we insist on using a technique that may not apply to "road the way it is today?" This is akin to standing in front of tanks with bows and arrows and saying... "well we have no other way... "

We can change laws, we can insist on changes to roadways... but to do so we must first acknowledge that there is a problem... and not just "go along."

Bear in mind that "the road the way it is today" is not the same road of yesteryear... it is more crowded, faster, and the motorists are more distracted... still want to use the same old techniques?"

I too advocate for lower speed limits and enforcement of existing speed limits with zero tolerance. This is good no matter what the on-street facilities do or do not include.

However if an intersectionless road must have a 50mph PSL, then there are two on road choices vs. a narrow outside lane: One is a bike lane, the other a wide (>16') lane.

If this bike lane is designed just to meet minimum AASTHO (4' lane) then I'd much rather have the 16' WOL.

But if the bike lane can be at least 6' wide with a regular and very frequent (1/2wks is not enough) sweeping schedule, then it acceptable too.

Al