what does this video really show again?


Trained, capable, fast and confident cyclists riding slow urban streets with light traffic on a weekend in a team of two.


I wonder if the trailing cyclist had "SMILE, YOU"RE ON CAMERA" printed on the back of his jersey

A solo rider, say, an adolescent riding 8 mph might have been treated differently by passing traffic... heck, even a full grown adult! I get harassed at least once a quarter on roads EXACTLY like the ones shown in the video, for doing nothing more than claiming the right hand lane of a four lane road.

I got double teamed by some motorists on a 30mph four lane road about a month ago during rush hour. one motorist started honking at me, he passed, then got in front of me and blocked me while the second motorist pulled alongside and hurled invectives at me about 'blocking traffic' at a point on my commute I hit 25-27 MPH - he even swerved at me to make his point.

I'd love to see some more advanced VC riding video- I'd go shoot some but don't have a suitable action cam yet.

AND, once those boys get a little more cycling under their belt, they'll figure out how to filter to the front of those lines of traffic safely- remember kids, cars split lanes with us, you can split lanes with cars!

Do you really think speed comes into play?
Traffic was light in the vid, I prefer lots of cars.
I read these and other threads and really don't understand the problems. I ride in city and suburban traffic constantly and have no trouble. I almost never ride in the country. Am I a racer? Not a good one, BUT I can accelerate up to speed faster than most cyclists (at least it seems that way), up to 28-30 mph, and hold it for several blocks (which is more than needed most of the time, in today's stop light/sign happy world). Maybe traffic riding simply plays to my strengths? Maybe.


Looks like 15-18 mph in most of the vid, would 10-12 mph have been treated differently?

A smaller speed differential makes for smoother riding, generally, maddyfish.

In my experience, riding 10MPH in front of 30mph traffic generally gets me treated differently than when I'm doing 25MPH, yes. Although with the two drivers that harassed me last month while I was doing 25 on a 4 lane 30MPH road, there's no guarantees!

A decent video showing some good basic principles to ride by?


Yes they seem trained and capable. And the environment they chose was conducive to highlight the techniques they were showing.



Maybe we should all? Hey that would be a cool jersey idea.

Can't wait to see your superior video

Right, and filtering isn't always legal in all areas. Maybe they didn't want to show something that is not universally allowed in a general training video.


And I still don't understand all of the backlash because they chose either rodes more lightly travelled or weekend. It is a training video to show some techniques. Do SWAT teams start their training with live fire drills? No, they practice in a controlled environment. OMG it isn't 100% realistic.

-D

True it is but a training video, and under the circumstances it shows how things are supposed to work. But indeed there are other circumstances that consist of far more risk, far more traffic, where far more skill is required and the comfort level to any one but the most skilled cyclists would be pretty low. Does it take the same high level of skill to drive on a Freeway? Looking at who drives Freeways, no. (just about anyone, while chatting on a phone can easily drive down a freeway, while listening to their favorite tunes). But to be a cyclist, and manage on roads that are not lightly traveled or on a weekend, takes "advanced skills."

So it comes down to this... any one can drive (and just about anyone does) but to bike on roads that tend to dominate the west (fast, dense traffic, arterials) one has to be a highly skilled cyclist... thus eliminating all but a few highly skilled cyclists. With that situation, we are not likely to see an increase in the numbers of cyclists... If our goal is to keep cycling in the hands of a few highly skilled cyclists... the goal is met. If on the other hand we desire to see more people take up cycling... then there is a disconnect...

As for the SWAT analogy... remember SWAT teams are an elite well trained specialty group within the larger general police population.

That is my position, as well. What I really hate are freeway-style high-speed merges and diverges. I consider myself a highly experienced cyclist, but a timid one, and I ride accordingly, including making two-part left turns instead of trying to negotiate a gap in 55mph traffic.

Did the cyclist look to his rear for traffic in any left turn move? I didn't see it. Just a signal and a move.

Are looks to the rear taught in LAB training? I think they're essential.

The video shows that it is safe to ride in traffic and you won't instantly be run over or hit. Everyone here knows that because they already do it, but most people do not. It is mostly beneficial to the many people with little or no experience.

The lane splitting issue is not relevant in the conditions shown. If there are only two or three cars at the light and no chance of missing the green cycle, then there is little advantage to splitting lanes, and arguably more risk.

Yes looking back is taught... part of one drill is to show you can hold a straight line while looking back.

And this is exactly my point... sure, very experienced cyclists can do this... but where does that leave the rest of the public that might take to cycling, and due to the nature of local roads, have no choice but to face such situations that even experienced cyclists "may find a bit daunting."

It would have been good to demonstrate that in the video.

I find it common that people seem to think that a signal is good enough. They feel as long as they've signaled, they can go.

I often don't move until there's room for me to go and often, there's no need to signal.

I'll signal only if I need room to be made for me, and I don't go until the motorist has seen my signal and given me space to move.

I look... twice, signal, then go, if clear. "Negotiation" that some folks discuss is often not possible as drivers are usually too far behind. But if I am taking a lane, then I expect that the motorist just has to live with it. In fast, heavy traffic situations, negotiation may not be possible as the motorist is trying to avoid looking at me as they try to get on by. It may be three or four motorists before someone decides to let me in... or they just keep on going and ignore my sign altogether.

Yep. Just like in a car, a signal is sometimes just an indication of what you are going to do, not always a request for permission.

Genec,

I don't disagree in particular. And I think it would be great to see other videos. Like maybe "advanced traffic techniques". But I don't think that needs to be presented in this video. Everyone has to start somewhere.

And thank you for proving that point for me regarding the SWAT analogy. yes they are an elite group. Yet they still start by training on things like "clearing a room" using an empty room and weapons with no ammo. Everyone has to start somewhere.

So bottom line. It would be great seeing more training videos. But I think the one we are discussing in this thread is fine as it is.

-D

That is really hardly at all, practically none. If you calculate the percentage of drivers that pass with harassment out of the total number of driver that pass one without any you may find that less than 0.01% of drivers have unacceptable behavior.

Al

I'm constantly looking and seeing how the drivers react to what I'm doing.

Often, I'll move over a little more to see if I get some more room and if I don't i keep trying and signaling but you're right. Some motorists just don't give you an inch and you have to adjust in different ways.
It just kills me when I see a rider up ahead who just sticks out an arm and moves right into the path of an oncoming vehicle who is not looking at the dancing bear (dothetest)

Ah, but in a car I can edge over, and maintain position with the same motorist and actually negotiate... I can't do that when the motorists are moving past me at 30MPH over my speed when I ride a bike.

Therein lies the big difference... no matter how aggressive I want to be on a bike... it is all too easy for motorists to simply ignore me and hit the gas like they don't even see me.

Of course the usual response is "well just do a ped turn at the next light... " but that assumes there is a light and it is not a T junction that I need to turn at.

This is why I say VC "fails" as on a bike when in the mix of high speed motor traffic... I can be "cut off" and simply not have an option.

Of course you won't see that on a training video... you will only see successful turns and negotiations in lower speed traffic... while the claims are made that "it works everywhere..."

Well the reality is that I too am constantly glancing... using my mirror. But when I turn, I do make a very decided set of decisions that includes "looking twice."

Check this out for a real "training" video...
thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.p...8&postcount=12
video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UVCKzKJ74A

The root problem here was that I was not controlling the lane and was riding in an ambiguous position. This was knowingly done by me, but if I had been centered in the lane it is likely that he (and other motorists) would have seen they could not share the lane and would have changed lanes much sooner and would be less slowed by me and have less time to think to tell me something.

I did invite the conversation by pulling up directly behind their rear view mirror.

I did not touch the vehicle, say anything rude, pulled up next to them, etc. things that could have escalated the situation unnecessarily. That in my experience helps keep things civil.

Al

I think you're possibly overstating the problem. Realistically, how often do people put themselves on roads that they aren't able to negotiate one way or another? I wouldn't do it more than once.

Everyone rides to their own capabilities. I reckon for the most part people are pretty good at assessing risk, and whether they are comfortable riding a stretch of road well before they find themselves stranded with no-where to go. Planning for the few bozos that can't do that is a fool's errand.

But if it makes you feel any better, point me to a road in Brisbane that you think reproduces these ultra-difficult conditions (preferably southside, and note all roads with an M are banned to bikes) and I'll have a go videoing it for you.

Then where I live you would never go north as all the roads that leave my neighborhood are high speed arterials... either 45 or 50MPH. The roads near my office are also 50MPH arterials. The only other roads are Freeways. I have no other choice... period.

Also near my office is a 65MPH road, that parallels a major freeway... about 200 yards away... why a 65MPH road (with a narrow BL) exists within a stones throw of a freeway is beyond me... but that is the case.

In another direction is another 65MPH road... used to be 45MPH, but now it is 65. Also with a bike lane. Two cyclists have been killed on that road. (it is actually quite fun to ride as it is very flat). They finally put in a buffer between traffic and the BL and rerouted it after the second cyclists death... apparently that is what it takes. This road is only a 1/4 mile from a parallel freeway. The bottom line is if motorists need to go fast, the freeway is available... Why do these surface streets (that are the only access for cyclists) have to be 65MPH?

As to your request... never been to Brisbane... so I don't have a suggestion... Only been to Sydney... and that was in the mid '70s.

^^^There is no excuse for a 65 mph non-interstate road.

Maybe as a rural farm hiway... but certainly not as a suburban street... or even an arterial. I fully tend to agree. But this is what the 85 percentile rule has brought in car crazy southern California.

Have you or anyone tried to do anything about this particular suburban 65mph street?

What is the longest distance between light controlled intersections on this street? What is the longest between any type of intersection?

Which reminds me, the gov.(city?) is doing a speed study on one street near my house (currently 40mph). Would it be wrong to drive a loop for an hour a day and pass the sensors at 20mph every time for the duration of the study? Would it help bring down the 85% Yeah, probably not.

Al