lugs vs welding?
07-08-05 | 02:45 PM
#26
I couldn't car less.
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Originally Posted by jimv
Damn!!! I wish you had mentioned this BEFORE I had the entire rear triangle replaced on my Tig'd Rodriguez. Fortunately, the builder didn't realize it was impossible as well.....otherwise the job would not have turned out so perfectly 8-)
Jim
Jim
The frame replacement value is around 850$ US, so I will attempt a fix.
07-08-05 | 02:45 PM
#27
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Lots of good information here. Also a lugged frame is a little heavier than a welded frame. If you are not going for a super light bike I would not consider this a big deal.
For a classic look and a frame than can take a little more abuse I would go with lugs. In fact If I were buying a custom bike I would want something fancy about the lugs.
For a classic look and a frame than can take a little more abuse I would go with lugs. In fact If I were buying a custom bike I would want something fancy about the lugs.
07-08-05 | 03:01 PM
#29
I couldn't car less.
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Bikes: Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro.
Ibis Ti\CF 1988. The lug to headtube was Tig welded?
This guy has started his company up again. Wow.
Best of all worlds in one frame. https://www.firstflightbikes.com/ibis.htm
This guy has started his company up again. Wow.
Best of all worlds in one frame. https://www.firstflightbikes.com/ibis.htm
Last edited by jeff williams; 07-08-05 at 03:09 PM.
07-08-05 | 03:32 PM
#30
I couldn't car less.
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Originally Posted by bostontrevor
Interesting. How'd he do it? Just cut at the welds and reweld? I was alway under the impression that it wasn't doable.
07-08-05 | 04:24 PM
#31
hateful little monkey
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From: oakland, ca
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
Oh, and a big advantage with a lugged frame is that should you have a wreck that irreparably damages one of your tubes, you can take it to a builder to simply replace the affected tube. This isn't possible with welded frames.
I like lugs, but all my bikes are tigged.
07-08-05 | 04:35 PM
#33
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Bikes: Surly Steamroller, Rodriguez (custom SS)
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
Interesting. How'd he do it? Just cut at the welds and reweld? I was alway under the impression that it wasn't doable.
As far as the larger discussion, I think lugs are nice and a fine way to build a bike. In fact, I harbored a tig prejudice for years, but, when I decided to get a custom frame made, I found that the money I saved with tig (over lugs) allowed me to pay for a much better grade of tubing (TT Ox Platinum over TT Verus). Also, with a tig'd frame, one has greater choices in tube diameter and shape .... simply put, lugs are not available for all tubing options and custom lugs are really expensive. Now I only have Tig's frames.
Jim
07-08-05 | 04:37 PM
#34
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Bikes: Surly Steamroller, Rodriguez (custom SS)
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
Interesting. How'd he do it? Just cut at the welds and reweld? I was alway under the impression that it wasn't doable.
Originally Posted by jeff williams
I've sent 2 pms, maybe we will get an answer!
Are you referring to me? If so, I've received no PM's.
Jim
07-08-05 | 04:46 PM
#35
I couldn't car less.
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Originally Posted by jimv
Jeff...
Are you referring to me? If so, I've received no PM's.
Jim
Are you referring to me? If so, I've received no PM's.
Jim
). Framebuilders.
07-08-05 | 04:57 PM
#36
Retrogrouch in Training
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From: Knee-deep in the day-to-day
Interesting indeed.
Anyhow, I have nothing against TIG, I have one myself. If I ever get my Mike Flanigan, that will be TIG for sure. I like it for the same reasons as you: you can spend money on lugs and brazing or tubing.
Anyhow, I have nothing against TIG, I have one myself. If I ever get my Mike Flanigan, that will be TIG for sure. I like it for the same reasons as you: you can spend money on lugs and brazing or tubing.
07-08-05 | 06:03 PM
#37
XX
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From: SSNY
Bikes: a white one and a brown one
Originally Posted by 2manybikes
Lots of good information here. Also a lugged frame is a little heavier than a welded frame. If you are not going for a super light bike I would not consider this a big deal.
For a classic look and a frame than can take a little more abuse I would go with lugs. In fact If I were buying a custom bike I would want something fancy about the lugs.
For a classic look and a frame than can take a little more abuse I would go with lugs. In fact If I were buying a custom bike I would want something fancy about the lugs.
Tubes are replaceable in either method of joining. Lugs do look nice. Built by a good builder, strength will not be an issue. David Kirk builds some beautiful fillet brazed frames.
https://www.kirkframeworks.com/index.htm
07-08-05 | 06:11 PM
#38
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Bikes: Thylacines...only Thylacines.
Originally Posted by bostontrevor
I do agree that lugged frames look better, or maybe more correctly, they offer the builder more opportunity to add flourishes than welding.
There is also "lugged" construction where the lugs have internal sleeves that fit inside the tubes. They generally have a very smooth look to them, similar to fillet brazing but without the built out joints and usually with visible seams. They're not very common.
Oh, and a big advantage with a lugged frame is that should you have a wreck that irreparably damages one of your tubes, you can take it to a builder to simply replace the affected tube. This isn't possible with welded frames. I suppose it's theoretically possible with fillet brazed frames, though I can imagine that it's substantially expensive.
The ability to replace a tube is really nice if you paid a lot for the frame.
There is also "lugged" construction where the lugs have internal sleeves that fit inside the tubes. They generally have a very smooth look to them, similar to fillet brazing but without the built out joints and usually with visible seams. They're not very common.
Oh, and a big advantage with a lugged frame is that should you have a wreck that irreparably damages one of your tubes, you can take it to a builder to simply replace the affected tube. This isn't possible with welded frames. I suppose it's theoretically possible with fillet brazed frames, though I can imagine that it's substantially expensive.
The ability to replace a tube is really nice if you paid a lot for the frame.
If the ability to replace a tube is a priority, then you should probably consider silver brazed lugged construction. However, unless you were a bizarre combination of psycho mountainbiker and contender for the 'Worlds most un-coordinated man', why bother?
On the other hand, if you're worried about dentability, just go for thicker walled tubes.
07-08-05 | 07:36 PM
#39
I couldn't car less.
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Bikes: Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro.
[QUOTE=Thylacine] However, unless you were a bizarre combination of psycho mountainbiker and contender for the 'Worlds most un-coordinated man', why bother?
[QUOTE]
Hey, I resemble that remark!..and I don't ditch THAT often.
[QUOTE]
Hey, I resemble that remark!..and I don't ditch THAT often.
Last edited by jeff williams; 07-08-05 at 07:43 PM.
07-09-05 | 08:53 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by ridefixed
A lugged bike is not necessarily heavier. Our brazer up here at Serotta weighed all of the lugs and tubes of a Csi (our lugged steel - available in any shape or size) against all of the tubes of the Colorado III (our Tig welded steel frame). The Csi was marginally lighter. Lugs themselves are very light, and the tubing is drawn differently for the two models.
Tubes are replaceable in either method of joining. Lugs do look nice. Built by a good builder, strength will not be an issue. David Kirk builds some beautiful fillet brazed frames.
https://www.kirkframeworks.com/index.htm
Tubes are replaceable in either method of joining. Lugs do look nice. Built by a good builder, strength will not be an issue. David Kirk builds some beautiful fillet brazed frames.
https://www.kirkframeworks.com/index.htm
good point. NICE brazing !!
07-09-05 | 07:05 PM
#45
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From: Pleasanton Tx
Bikes: old,older.and very old
I stand corrected,David kirk's work is great!
This is the Fillet-brazed bb on the 1952 claud butler frame---this is first rate work.There is other ways to add to the look of a frame besids lugs---take a look at the seat stay finals on the CB---sam
This is the Fillet-brazed bb on the 1952 claud butler frame---this is first rate work.There is other ways to add to the look of a frame besids lugs---take a look at the seat stay finals on the CB---sam
