finally managed to get a lil' green in my back pocket, so it's time to rid of these damn suzue stupid jr. sticky, tempermental, noisy, no-fun hubs. i know these type questions irk peoples triggers, but,

who would win in a fist fight between phil, paul, and level?

phils kinda even across the board with a good rep, pauls a pretty beefy dude, and levels one cunning little trickster, so i'm stuck on who to put my money on.

phil for sure

phil all the way

phil.

pauls have a funky ~45mm chainline.
the level's proprietary cog system, while ingenious, scares me off.

seems about right. i'm a lil' guy so i think level, although fascinating, is a bit too overbuilt. and why buy paul when you can get phil for nearly the same $$$$?


if these hubs were characters in street fighter, level would be zangief, paul would be ken, and phil would be ryu.


zangief is heavy and slow, and why the **** be that pretty-boy ******* ken when ryus so much more epic and cool and level-headed, but not old fashioned.


thanks for the opinions, brah.

fist fight? i'd rather see them go at it on the track or goldsprints.

not sure on the result, but i've order some red phils.

My next front wheel will be Phil, because I've already got the hub body, but I'll probably go with the Level hub for the rear. The proprietary cog system attracts me more than it scares me off. It's a genuinely good idea and I dig it thoroughly.

Just curious, where have you guys found phils for the same price as pauls? I got a set o' pauls for 180 and free shipping, and the cheapest i can find phils are like 250 a set. that like an extra 40% in cost. So im hoping someone can shed some light on where all the good phil bargains are. Thanks.

levels have a 45mm chainline, as well. i think the spline/bolt cog is brilliant, though.

You could always put the Miche Adaptor on a Phil if you're anti-threading. Not sure what it does to the chainline.



https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/fixed-sprockets.html

Not as beefy as the Level system, but I can't recall anyone complaining about it.

What does the different chainline mean in practical terms? Could one compensate with just a slightly longer BB spindle?

+1?

yeah longer BB would work. 6mm longer to be precise. (assuming symmetry)
does such a BB exist for your application?
would you mind the extra 6mm of Q?

The Miche gogs are o.k. if you don't put tons of miles on em. Otherwise they are not a good choice. The adapter and cog develop play between them in fairly short order. I would NOT recommend them to anyone except track guys who swap their cogs out often. So there......a complaint.

Ditto Cavernmech. Whilst I've never experienced it, I've heard and read complaints of the Miche adapter developing play after being ridden for a while. Big ixnay on that one.

I have the Pauls (Gaansari branded) and love them...yep, chainline is 45-ish but it lines up perfectly with TA Alize Pista cranks & TA Axis BB...reckon I got lucky with the spec.

I seriously doubt any of us could really notice an extra 6mm of Q. I would be using the Level in a build that also used the FSA track crank, which calls for a 108mm BB. FSA's site shows ISIS BB's available in 113mm width, which would get you to within 1mm of the 114mm ideal. Ideally, I would get a BB with 113mm spindle, and chainline adjustability (ie no flanges, like on the FSA track BB) to soak up the 1mm disparity in chainline, but I'm not seeing anything to that effect out there. Personally, I wouldn't be too worried about that 1mm chainline error.

(cough) Phils and forget it

...unless you genuinely believe in the otherwise superior design/engineering of the Levels...

a friend of mine has the level hubs. he said they were "clicky" (noise) and that there was a little play in the cog. he called level and they sent him a replacement (trial) but not the axle bolts. his where too long, and it took forever for level to get back to him about it. as far as i know this was all straightened out (he's riding the temporary replacement while his is being looked at). not biased. just sayin'. i do think they are ugly, though. but i also think the high flange phils are hideous as well.

-jason

yeah, where have you been able to get Phils for as much as Pauls?

i still get shop prices for a place i used to work at,

and their prices are close without the mark-up, but not the same.

Unless you live in Wisconsin or Edmonton, you don't need Phils. Of course the Level is overbuilt, but so is the Phil.

Unless you're going for Level due to their amazing design concept, stick with Surly or something in that range. Promaxes were overrated, and are now gone, and Phils are boring and heavy. At least Paul makes awesome stuff beyond hubs.

^them's fightin words

where do your order your Phils from? straight from them? Also, do you have to go through Paul to get fixed / fixed hubs? QBP only has flip-flop.

also, when ordering from the company itself, do you have to get multiples?