Hello
Ill be putting together my wheels for the for the first time, and I would like to learn to do this process. Dura Ace High Flange 36H, Deep V's 36h... So lets start with what measurments of spokes I should get. What spokes are for DA's high flange with deep Vs 36h? Then, I know I want black spokes... I know I want radially laced in the front. I know I want laced 3xs in the rear. Basically exactly like this: Props to whoevers bike this is:

I never built wheels before so any pointers on this would be really appreciated. Thanks.

That's dubteka's wheels.

the length will be different for 3x and radial, and different for the drive side and non drive side of your rear wheel.

To figure out the spoke length you're best off using a spoke length calculator (google it, should be availible online). Chances are your LBS will cut them for you for a nominal fee if you bring them the hubs and rims when you bike the spokes.

it's cool that you want to build your own wheels but i would HIGHLY recommend against radial lacing if this wheel is going to be used for anything other than the track. besides, 36h radials just aren't sexy like, say, 28's. your wheels already weigh a gajillion pounds with those rims, you may as well make your spokes as sturdy as everything else instead of having an obvious weakpoint. this is only amplified by the fact that you're building them yourself for the very first time.

While 3x is stronger, you'll probably be fine. drac vamps got an 18 bladed spoke radial wheel he beats to death and he's not dead yet. I know a ton of people who ride them all over cities with no problems. Even drive side 3x non drive radial rear wheels. Have a bike shop check the tension for you after you finish your build before you ride the hell out of it tho.

I have a radial front I've ridden for almost a year now without incident.
It was my first build as well and is a great way to get started.

spoke calculator: https://www.dtswiss.com (look in the bottom left)

help: https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

and i agree about taking them to an LBS to double check your work. i actually built mine IN an LBS just so i had them right there to help.

Right, after my first wheel build I took it to my LBS to check it over and give it a final truing.

Christ, not another R-I invasion. Look dude, 36h radial is 100% fine for a front, front's aren't transmitting any torque like rears so they don't need the strength of crossed/nonradial spokes. I'm a ****** and my 20 spoke radial front has 2k on it with no issues

3x is the best pattern for the rear when you're learning. I like how they look and all, but the wheels in that pic look especially cool because of the angle it was taken at. From the side you don't really see the sets of 4 like you do in that pic, you just see normal wheel.

Spokulator is the best/easiest spoke length calculator (https://www.houseof3d.com/pete/applet...appwheel.html). Get your measurements and then screw with it a little to see how the different variables interact, it's kind of cool and if your thinking cap is on you will learn a little bit about what makes wheels work,

Good advice above, just ignore the left and right side being of different legths on a track/fixed wheel. This differing spoke lengths only apply to wheels that will be dished. i.e. geared bikes. A rear track/fixie wheel should be dishless and use the same length spokes (assuming the same lacing pattern is being used for both sides)

i've ridden my track wheelset on the street a lot (because they're a **** of a lot lighter than stupid deep V's, and it's all i had for a while.) i have 28's and everything is radial except the drive on the rear. i haven't had any problems.

however the examples we're all giving are completely anecdotal. sure, WE haven't had problems, but it is not a debateable fact that radial lacing is not nearly as strong as 3x. the fact that we haven't had problems does not in any way whatsoever preclude the fact that the wheels potential for issues is significantly greater. it's certainly not enough to be afraid to ride them on the street (like i said, i've done it, a lot) but it really isn't the wisest choice, and for the life of me i can't understand why someone would buy heavy as hell bombproof rims and then radial lace them for any other reason than the fashion of it. whatever weight you've saved was long ago lost with those rims. (that and the fact that you're going with 36h. seriously, what are you trying to accomplish?)

this isn't meant to be as vitriolic as it might sound, as it's really more of a response to the people who think 'well, since it hasn't happened to me, it can't happen to anyone' is some sort of empirical evidence.

auk - You sure about that? My LBS cut my spokes for me and they told me that the spoke lengths are slightly different for the drive side. Only 1mm, but still. I think it compensates for the part where the threads are to keep tension even around the whole wheel.

Or Ryan, it may just be that the radial pattern suits the taste of a particular person. Is it fashion then or is it function to that person?

Sometimes the want and the need is not so easily seperated.

Yea its like that drop bars shenanigan you were all huffy about. My anectodal evidence is that not a single person i know who has a radial wheel has had a wheel failure because of the lacing. The deep vs are probably a good choice of rim for doing up radial because they are so bomb proof. 36h is stronger than 32h anyway. I think he's trying to accomplish a cool lookign wheelset that will fill his needs of having a bike he likes.

And I think you're arguing just for the sake of arguing and have no idea what you're talking about most of the time.

If this is a track hub, the flange is the same on both sides, unlike a road hub. At any rate, 1mm is nothing. But, I stand by my statement that the rear will have no dish and be using the same amount of spoke on either side. Even better, if you use the same pattern front/rear, every spoke is the same length.

Bingo.

auk - point taken. I'll ask my LBS why they did that next time I go in. 1mm is pretty negligable for sure.

BTW, to the original poster, good luck with the build. The first build will frustrate and make you grin in equal parts as you do it. Once done, you'll fee damn proud of the finished product. Just take your time and get the tension and the trueness correct. But remember...............have fun with it.

I keep screwing up the 3x lacing. I end up with 4 spoke holes on the hub between parallel spokes when there should be 6. It would be 6 and 8 if I'm counting the spokes. It's driving me crazy

lief - easiest way. Lace one side, skipping every other hole in the hub, and lacing it to every 4th hole in the rim (Start with one of them laced right next to the valve hole). twist the hub, turn the wheel over and look at the other side. Notice on the hubs how the holes are off from the other side. Pick one to the side (working away from the valve hole, and lace it to right next to the spoke from the otherside in to the rim. Flip back to the first side. Stick all the spokes through the remaining holes first (i just find it's easier this way.). In the opposite direction of the first spokes, over two, under one. It will go right next to the last rim hole you laced to. Flip to the second side. Same thing, lace it to the only remaining side. Easy as pie.

Hope that made sense.

.



my point is that is has nothing at all to do with utilitarian function, and everything to do with style. i never implied that it is not allowed to do this, just that if it is done, it is a matter of form and form alone. i also had fun with the incongruency of getting the heaviest rims on planet earth and then using the lightest spoke build possible. it's funny.


and onetwentyeight-the radial issue has much more to do with the hubs than the rims. having a stronger rim will not change the fact that the stress on the hub is much greater with radials than 3x. i don't blab about things i don't know about. if this discussion gets over my head, i'll be happy to concede that. and i don't even see why this is an 'argument'. i think we all agree on the facts. what we disagree on is what the best choice to do with the facts is. i didn't even call anyone a cumsicle.

but, just in case i'm being silly: can you think of a reason, other than the looks of it, to lace it radially?

I hate to say it, but I side with Ryan on this one. Radial is okay, but if you're going for it, be aware of the tradeoffs you are taking. I think a lot of people who are building their own wheels start off with a radial just because it looks easier to lace, and is less intimidating. This may or may not be the case with the OP, but be aware that 2x, 3x, or 4x are still pretty darn easy.

less weight, though its not significant to most riders.

I'm leaving this thread cuz I just don't wanna deal with this bs anymore.

And yes. They are stiffer vertically, though weaker laterally. It's a trade off. That's why radial wheels are a slightly harsher ride.

I agree its more of a style thing, but who ****ing cares. It's not going to kill him, especially if he takes it to his LBS to have his work checked.

Interesting on the spoke length for drive side or non. I get my spokes from Marcus at Yojimbo's and he also gives me a set of 18 which are cut a tad shorter (36H Campy Record hub single side fixed). I imagine it doesn't matter but it is interesting that some people do that and some don't. Perhaps a double fixed is fine but not a single sided fixed?

onetwentyeight, sounds good. I'm going to give it another shot tonight. I need to get these laced so I can ride.