As suspected.

Carry on.

Okay, I was going to post about other riders skidding up trails yesterday, but thought it was OT for the thread. At any rate, if you're gonna go with the cog bolted onto the disc side, I've read that a lot of people have had some really good experiences with the Boone Ti cog. I don't know how long it would take to get one, but they look like they'd be worth the wait.

Pinkie, come on now. You school many women you ride with. I can't think of any other fixed gear mtn biker that hucks off a 2 foot drop the first time they rode a fixed mtn bike.

Huh, that's funny. When I built up my 1x1 I was shipped two front brakes instead of a front and rear. I decided to race anyway that night on a coasting single speed with only a front brake (GASP!! ) Funny thing is I still podiumed (3rd) and probably could have gained 2nd if not 1st had I had a rear since I was scrubing speed off way earlier with only a front brake. I guess I'm still learning what exactly is needed as far as braking goes on trails. Please master of experience enlighten us all.

Boone cogs are great. I have 3. I started out with just a drilled out DX cog but then had Boone make some for me. They run about $2.50 per tooth. The wait time depends on his back log.

Good for you but that has very little to do with my point. So you where able to podium with only a front brake. You have my congratulation for being very strong. It has little to do with general riding though. Yes you can ride alot of trails without using your back brake... but you have to go significantly slower parts of them and there are plenty of trails I have ridden that you simply couldn't ride all of without two brakes. These sections are the ones where you would be most likely to not be able to apply the smooth pressure needed to keep your rear wheel from breaking free too. If you ride at a speed that allows you to keep complete control over your rear wheel at all times fine. I haven't ever ridden with you I have no way of knowing. I doubt however there aren't times that you are unable to apply pressure smoothly enough to keep your rear wheel from breaking free. If so you should have a rear brake for those occaisions.

see, thats where I lose you. Becuase you can modulate just as well and even better!(with a lot of practice) with your pedals than you could with your rear brake.

And to me the limiting factor on the rear brake losing traction on the trail is always a combination of surface conditions and weight shifting, and Not the inability to control braking modulation via the pedals.

I have always thought that subtle variations in leg speed modulate as well as a rear hand brake.

Not really.

With a brake you can apply a constant force to rim(or rotor) through the pads. Unless there is something wrong with your braking system this leads to constant friction and a constant amount of tourque on the rear wheel.

Applying force to the pedals in either direction you can't do this. You are using different muscles with different strengths throughtout the pedal stroke and therefore you can apply a variable tourque to the wheel. Unless you are riding a really really low ratio or are insanely strong you probably are applying a variable stopping force through the back wheel which makes you much more likely to skid. Think about forward pedaling. People who spin out while climbing almost always do it in the middle of the pedal stroke and then regain traction when the pedals reach the top and bottom.

Well then, lets just agree that you are wrong and move on.

This is exactly what Kirk said and I was said by a controled spin. You have to know where your pedal stroke is and what you can do with it at all 360 degrees of rotation. Just like experienced dirt riders have learned to keep from braking traction at 3 and 9 o'clock climbing hills, fixed geared riders...even those that ride on the street have learned that by varying the spin you can have as great of an effect on decelerating, if not better, then if you had a rear brake. By using a rear brake and your legs you are taking away the ability to really control the rear wheel with your legs.

And yes some brakes do have a higher tendency to not allow modulation then others whether U, V, mech, or hydralic, etc....

<i>fixed geared riders...even those that ride on the street have learned that by varying the spin you can have as great of an effect on decelerating, if not better, then if you had a rear brake.</i>

No matter what this statement is just absurd. Whatever you think about riding on dirt this is just bull****. With the gear ratios(around 3:1) and increased friction on the road noone is strong enough to do this. This is why skidding and skipping are so popular. For real world riders they stop you faster even though the codf is lower then the cosf. Unless you are a world class sprinter(and probably not even then) you are simply not strong enough to apply enough tourque throughout the pedal stroke to take advantage of the increased cosf. People claim they can control thier speed better but when push comes to shove they end up skidding which illustrates how they can't. Poeple make alot of absurd statements about fixies though so this is to be expected but the proof is in the pudding. Have you read that hilarious fixed gear harmonic motion essay by the way it perfectly illustrates the ridiculous claims some people are willing to make?

On dirt the situation is slightly different due to lower ratios and decreased friction but the theory is the same.

I bring up people spinning out while climbing to show that even with a <1:1 ratio most people are capable of breaking the tire free in the middle of the pedal stroke but not at the top/bottom. Even with the decreased weighting being able to provide enough tourque to brake free at the top/bottom, is unlikely with a reasonable ratio. Therefore you cannot provide the ideal amount of torque smoothly to the rear wheel.

I'm done. I bet you don't even ride a fixed gear do you? Please stick to your plastic big wheel will ya?

There have been numerous threads on here regarding that topic at least which came to the same conclusion I have. I'm sorry that the fixed gear koolaid has sapped any last bit of reason from your mind so that you can't even admit to the general concensus(at least in practice) because doing so would be admitting a weakness in fgs.

I to am done with this thread zealots can't be reasoned with.