Building up my 67 Paramount
08-23-06 | 07:22 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by marqueemoon
That honor belongs to guitar collectors.
+1 coudn't aqgree more when I stop playing something for too long I sell it
08-23-06 | 08:51 PM
#52
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a.k.a. ace
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From: Timonium, MD
Bikes: Dahon Jetstream XP; Dahon Boardwalk (fixed)
I actually can completely understand where Don is coming from. I have a really nice pair of dress shoes that I only wear on special occassions, which usually is only two or three times a year. Same can be said for my tuxedo which gets once a year wear at best.
With that said, let me ask if my frame is truly "classic"? I ask that b/c it is a repaint, does that make a difference? It does not have the stickers or the badge (one or both can probably be replicated). I ask this question in earnest. I also don't know how much I will really gain from restoring it and not riding it hardly ever.
I already have a Sunday bike. It is a Specialized Crossroads with a kid seat in the back for my 2 year old. That is what my Sundays (and Saturdays) are like and we have a blast, well I know I do and I think the little guy does too b/c he never wants to go home. I also already have 4 other bikes. My point here is that I have plenty of bikes to clunk around and commute on, so I can see getting the Paramount period correct, commuting on it during good weather and having the other bikes as my bad weather and errand bikes. As I mentioned before, the bike will *never* get locked up b/c I bring right into my office and park it right behind my desk as I do with my other bikes.
I think Don has the advantage of having access to more nice bikes than most, so it is easier for him to be a collector b/c has great bike to ride anyway. Let me ask this question Don, to you it is the *classic* aspect of the bike that makes it a non-commuter or would a nice custom build like the ones you do not be an appropriate commuter either?
With that said, let me ask if my frame is truly "classic"? I ask that b/c it is a repaint, does that make a difference? It does not have the stickers or the badge (one or both can probably be replicated). I ask this question in earnest. I also don't know how much I will really gain from restoring it and not riding it hardly ever.
I already have a Sunday bike. It is a Specialized Crossroads with a kid seat in the back for my 2 year old. That is what my Sundays (and Saturdays) are like and we have a blast, well I know I do and I think the little guy does too b/c he never wants to go home. I also already have 4 other bikes. My point here is that I have plenty of bikes to clunk around and commute on, so I can see getting the Paramount period correct, commuting on it during good weather and having the other bikes as my bad weather and errand bikes. As I mentioned before, the bike will *never* get locked up b/c I bring right into my office and park it right behind my desk as I do with my other bikes.
I think Don has the advantage of having access to more nice bikes than most, so it is easier for him to be a collector b/c has great bike to ride anyway. Let me ask this question Don, to you it is the *classic* aspect of the bike that makes it a non-commuter or would a nice custom build like the ones you do not be an appropriate commuter either?
08-23-06 | 09:25 PM
#53
blah
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From: Oakland, CA
Originally Posted by Walkercycles
My point is, classic stuff is exactly that. Its CLASSIC. Why ruin it? A guitar and a bicycle are only similar in cost. You can play a guitar in the safety of your own home, etc, but a classic bicycle can be totally effed up if you crash it, get hit by a car, etc. Why take a chance?
Still think you should commute on the cheap shiite.
DW
Still think you should commute on the cheap shiite.
DW
When I put on my new headset on the Stan Miles I removed the fork, and it was stamped with a 46. I doubt he ever made more than 100 frames, and I bet (from what I've learned of the guy) the majority of them were road. I'd be he'd be a lot happier to hear that theres some dumb kid in sf still rocking it daily on his frame then it hanging on someones wall. I feel I'm doing more respect to the bike by using it to its fullest.
I really understand your point of view don, its just not mine
The same way I cant get behind comic book collectors who never read the comics, or kids who wouldnt tear open a pack of baseball cards immediately or vinyl collectors who listen to cds. You know? Anyway. I think I've said all I can about this. Post some pics of that frame though Don, if you're not gonna ride it, at least share it with the world. If a bikes gonna sit unused, it might as well be seen by as many as possible. I know I'd love to see it.
08-23-06 | 09:45 PM
#54
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a.k.a. ace
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From: Timonium, MD
Bikes: Dahon Jetstream XP; Dahon Boardwalk (fixed)
So I just put up my inquiry about getting a badge and other parts on the Schwinn boards (https://www.schwinnbikes.com/heritage/). I thought it was funny that my post wound up going in the Collector's Forum, though maybe it should have gone in the Restoration Forum.
One change, it looks like it is not a 67, but rather a 68...or at least I hope b/c if it is not a 68 it means that it is an 83 which I doubt, but without knowing if Paramount Tracks were even made in 83 and if they were, what they looked like, I can't really say for sure. Fortunately I got it at a good price irrespective of year. The year would surely change what parts I put on there though.
One change, it looks like it is not a 67, but rather a 68...or at least I hope b/c if it is not a 68 it means that it is an 83 which I doubt, but without knowing if Paramount Tracks were even made in 83 and if they were, what they looked like, I can't really say for sure. Fortunately I got it at a good price irrespective of year. The year would surely change what parts I put on there though.
08-23-06 | 10:47 PM
#55
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
Originally Posted by acavengo
One change, it looks like it is not a 67, but rather a 68...or at least I hope b/c if it is not a 68 it means that it is an 83 which I doubt, but without knowing if Paramount Tracks were even made in 83 and if they were, what they looked like, I can't really say for sure. Fortunately I got it at a good price irrespective of year. The year would surely change what parts I put on there though.
H831 is August, 1968. If it were an August, 1983, bike the serial number would be H8301 (two digit sequence number).
Waterford also does authentic restorations of vintage Paramounts, and has head badges, decals, etc., for the various production years and models.
Last edited by Scooper; 08-23-06 at 11:17 PM.
08-23-06 | 11:42 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by Walkercycles
Once upon a time I collected Gretsch guitars. I was up to about 6 in my collection. I ended up selling them all during a sad period in my life (read divorce). Anyhow, I kept one. The first one I bought. I ended up losing that in the second war.
My point is, classic stuff is exactly that. Its CLASSIC. Why ruin it? A guitar and a bicycle are only similar in cost. You can play a guitar in the safety of your own home, etc, but a classic bicycle can be totally effed up if you crash it, get hit by a car, etc. Why take a chance?
Still think you should commute on the cheap shiite.
DW
My point is, classic stuff is exactly that. Its CLASSIC. Why ruin it? A guitar and a bicycle are only similar in cost. You can play a guitar in the safety of your own home, etc, but a classic bicycle can be totally effed up if you crash it, get hit by a car, etc. Why take a chance?
Still think you should commute on the cheap shiite.
DW
dw I have about 6 or 7 guitars nothing really special and I play em throught ok hold on get your bib on kuz you might get drool all over yourself a 67 fender bassman ab165 circuit (black face guts in other words) and a 1975 bassman 4x12 cab it sounds sweet my friends and neighbors hate me and what did I pay for it c'mon guess
08-23-06 | 11:43 PM
#57
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From: Sacramento, CA
Bikes: , Jury Bike, Moto Outcast 29, Spicer standard track frame and spicer custom steel sprint frame.
can we get pictures of the bike I can compare it to my friends 82 or 83 paramount and get back to you
08-23-06 | 11:49 PM
#59
live free or die trying
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From: where i lay my head is home.
Bikes: bianchi pista workhorse, cannondale r1000, mountain bike fixed conversion
i dunno, a lack of punctuation expresses an excitement akin to dean moriarty in "on the road"....breathless and furious. and hard to read for more than a line, i suppose.
08-24-06 | 02:14 AM
#60
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Bikes: , Jury Bike, Moto Outcast 29, Spicer standard track frame and spicer custom steel sprint frame.
I hate to say it but I type the way I speak fast and confusing.....they should make a movies
look I used puntuation hmm hmmm happy
look I used puntuation hmm hmmm happy
08-24-06 | 05:25 AM
#61
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a.k.a. ace
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From: Timonium, MD
Bikes: Dahon Jetstream XP; Dahon Boardwalk (fixed)
Thanks Scooper. As I said on the Schwinn Collector's Forum, having the year confirmed as 1968 by someone with your knowledge makes a world of difference. That Paramount history page is great. Looks like I got one with Prugnat lugs instead of the, in my opinion, a bit nicer looking Nervex lugs.
Last edited by acavengo; 08-24-06 at 05:47 AM.
08-24-06 | 06:56 AM
#63
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From: Los Angeles
Bikes: Custom Holland Ti road bike, Custom track bike I traded a painting for.
Originally Posted by TNCLR
he shouldn't have purchased a 1967 Paramount then.
Originally Posted by TNCLR
I was joking mr. tight ass
Jahstin, buddy, I miss you.
__________________
Ode to the after work nap ( ride your bike instead)
Ode to the nap
The evil, evil nap
It lures
you succumb
But only with good intent
Shortly I will rise
But you do not.
Do not succumb
To the evil, evil nap
Ode to the after work nap ( ride your bike instead)
Ode to the nap
The evil, evil nap
It lures
you succumb
But only with good intent
Shortly I will rise
But you do not.
Do not succumb
To the evil, evil nap
Last edited by Terror_in_pink; 08-24-06 at 07:03 AM.
08-24-06 | 07:32 AM
#64
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a.k.a. ace
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From: Timonium, MD
Bikes: Dahon Jetstream XP; Dahon Boardwalk (fixed)
Originally Posted by Walkercycles
WHat makes it classic is the bike is 30+ years old. It is also handmade, here in the states and is made of quality components. It has a certain "emotional value" to anyone who concerns themselves with quality, brand and era. While the lugs might not be Nervex, Prugnat werent a terrible lug at the time, either. That, is a personal preference and maybe does/does not have any effect on the collectibility of the frame. Frame restoration isnt looked at as taboo. Its important to keep the frames in proper condition, to resist rust, etc.
What I call a "sunday bike" is any bike that is so rare or classy (not always classic) that its what you would ride on Sunday group rides, just to blow up the skirts of those around you. I feel the vintage of the Paramount qualifies for such a bike.
As for me collecting, I really dont have a collection. I started it off when I found my Holdsworth that I rode as a Junior. The frame is basic and nothing special for vintage, however, it has deep sentimental value to me. I remember MANY days (and a few nights) on that bike, and cant remember having more fun riding on any other bike. When that is all period correct, I will complete the Pog. After that, its all about Classic American Steel. I will be collecting Sachs, Baylis, Columbine (Murphy), Strawberry, Della Santa, Nobilette, Gordon and maybe even an Eisentraut or two. I feel its important to have a bond with each bike you own, but that doesnt mean I would ride them all as a commuter. For me, its the fact I am friends with most all of these builders and want to own a little slice of history.
A custom is a fine commuter. Its a bike thats not classic, not for another 20+ years. However, its made for you, not only geometry, but the paint scheme and colors, etc are yours to design and please you. While it might seem overkill, you only live once and why not? (Unless you are on a shoestring budget)
DW
What I call a "sunday bike" is any bike that is so rare or classy (not always classic) that its what you would ride on Sunday group rides, just to blow up the skirts of those around you. I feel the vintage of the Paramount qualifies for such a bike.
As for me collecting, I really dont have a collection. I started it off when I found my Holdsworth that I rode as a Junior. The frame is basic and nothing special for vintage, however, it has deep sentimental value to me. I remember MANY days (and a few nights) on that bike, and cant remember having more fun riding on any other bike. When that is all period correct, I will complete the Pog. After that, its all about Classic American Steel. I will be collecting Sachs, Baylis, Columbine (Murphy), Strawberry, Della Santa, Nobilette, Gordon and maybe even an Eisentraut or two. I feel its important to have a bond with each bike you own, but that doesnt mean I would ride them all as a commuter. For me, its the fact I am friends with most all of these builders and want to own a little slice of history.
A custom is a fine commuter. Its a bike thats not classic, not for another 20+ years. However, its made for you, not only geometry, but the paint scheme and colors, etc are yours to design and please you. While it might seem overkill, you only live once and why not? (Unless you are on a shoestring budget)
DW
All this makes me wonder how many Paramount Tracks are out there in good condition.
08-24-06 | 09:23 AM
#65
blah
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,573
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From: Oakland, CA
Originally Posted by Walkercycles
WHat makes it classic is the bike is 30+ years old. It is also handmade, here in the states and is made of quality components. It has a certain "emotional value" to anyone who concerns themselves with quality, brand and era. While the lugs might not be Nervex, Prugnat werent a terrible lug at the time, either. That, is a personal preference and maybe does/does not have any effect on the collectibility of the frame. Frame restoration isnt looked at as taboo. Its important to keep the frames in proper condition, to resist rust, etc.
08-24-06 | 09:33 AM
#66
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From: Santa Rosa, California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22, several Paramounts
merlinextraligh recently bought a '77 Paramount P14 track bike and posted pictures in THIS THREAD. It's in gorgeous original, unrestored condition.
08-24-06 | 09:46 AM
#67
blah
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Oakland, CA
its okay, its already got 2 dents (tho I only am responsable for one!)
Actually, I have a question for you don.. I antipicate it getting messed up someday, and always thought it'd be cool to get it remade with the same lugs, but perhaps different dimensions to fit me a touch better. I imagine thats insanely expensive, but is it even possible?
Actually, I have a question for you don.. I antipicate it getting messed up someday, and always thought it'd be cool to get it remade with the same lugs, but perhaps different dimensions to fit me a touch better. I imagine thats insanely expensive, but is it even possible?
08-24-06 | 12:06 PM
#68
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a.k.a. ace
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From: Timonium, MD
Bikes: Dahon Jetstream XP; Dahon Boardwalk (fixed)
Wow! Thanks for the info Don. I definitely want to restore it to period correct and it definitely will not be ridden on a daily basis as I originally planned. I will ride it into work from time to time though, otherwise it will seriously never be ridden.
Is the info for contacting Waterford to get this work done, research, purchasing badge/decals, etc. clear on their site? I definitely want a badge and am leaning towards the research. I will probably hold off on decals and a proper repaint until I have more funds handy. I would rather work on getting the proper parts first.
Is the info for contacting Waterford to get this work done, research, purchasing badge/decals, etc. clear on their site? I definitely want a badge and am leaning towards the research. I will probably hold off on decals and a proper repaint until I have more funds handy. I would rather work on getting the proper parts first.
08-24-06 | 01:44 PM
#69
Wow Don, that's amazing. Can ya get the production info for my 76? 
acavengo, my paramount was redone two owners ago by waterford. I have to say, the paint and decals are absolutly amazing. The only complaint of mine is that the person who had it done must have tried to save some money, and not redo the chroming on the dropouts, so it's just clearcoated over, and at this point that clearcoat is flaking slightly. But again, the paintjob on this thing is so smooth and bright, and the decals are spot on. I would highly consider having them restore it, if need be.
acavengo, my paramount was redone two owners ago by waterford. I have to say, the paint and decals are absolutly amazing. The only complaint of mine is that the person who had it done must have tried to save some money, and not redo the chroming on the dropouts, so it's just clearcoated over, and at this point that clearcoat is flaking slightly. But again, the paintjob on this thing is so smooth and bright, and the decals are spot on. I would highly consider having them restore it, if need be.
08-25-06 | 09:25 PM
#70
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a.k.a. ace
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From: Timonium, MD
Bikes: Dahon Jetstream XP; Dahon Boardwalk (fixed)
So in looking for period correct parts I started searching the internet for Campagnolo Record Track hubs and I found this Sheldon Brown page. I then talked to my LBS today about them and he said he has seen a good bit of failures as well.
Anyone with experience with these out there?
Anyone with experience with these out there?
08-25-06 | 09:30 PM
#71
blah
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: Oakland, CA
that is a picture of a c-record hub. I have several friends who ride c-records on the street, and have no problems, however, they are relatively skinny guys (160 and under). They didnt come out till after your paramount though. Check regular campy record. I only weigh about 145 and have total confidence in them. I have a friend who weighs 210 and rides them daily. Records would be most period correct for your bike and are known to be more durable
08-25-06 | 09:33 PM
#72
blah
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From: Oakland, CA
08-25-06 | 09:41 PM
#73
Thread Starter
a.k.a. ace
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From: Timonium, MD
Bikes: Dahon Jetstream XP; Dahon Boardwalk (fixed)
Thanks onetwentyeight. I am having a hell of a time finding any period correct parts.
This is what I am looking for:
Campagnolo Record high flange hubs
Campagnolo Record Alloy crank set
Either a Reynolds aluminum alloy seatpost (not sure if worth it) or a Campagnolo seatpost (don't have details on that)
I got this info from a 1968 Specifications page that I found on the internet and I think was also posted here by Scooper.
It will take some time, that's something I am aware of, but I am debating if for now I build her up with more generic parts and ride or if I just find a more generic track frame and build that up. I am leaning towards the latter, but I may need to sell off one or two of my other bikes before doing that.
This is what I am looking for:
Campagnolo Record high flange hubs
Campagnolo Record Alloy crank set
Either a Reynolds aluminum alloy seatpost (not sure if worth it) or a Campagnolo seatpost (don't have details on that)
I got this info from a 1968 Specifications page that I found on the internet and I think was also posted here by Scooper.
It will take some time, that's something I am aware of, but I am debating if for now I build her up with more generic parts and ride or if I just find a more generic track frame and build that up. I am leaning towards the latter, but I may need to sell off one or two of my other bikes before doing that.
08-25-06 | 09:47 PM
#74
blah
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,573
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From: Oakland, CA
I know ive said it before but check the stan miles link in my sig. all the parts are campy from 1960-1980 except the bottom bracket and the stem/bar which is cinelli. Look for some nice older rims (mavic, fiamme, gipemme, campy) to really set off the wheelset
hubs: found on craigslist
cranks: from a friend
pedals: ebay
rims: ebay
seatpost: ebay
stem: ebay
bars: bikeforums!
headset: lbs had one just sitting there. go figure.
admitedly, it took me about a year to get this bike where it is now. restoring a bike is a slow process if you have something very specific in mind.
hubs: found on craigslist
cranks: from a friend
pedals: ebay
rims: ebay
seatpost: ebay
stem: ebay
bars: bikeforums!
headset: lbs had one just sitting there. go figure.
admitedly, it took me about a year to get this bike where it is now. restoring a bike is a slow process if you have something very specific in mind.
