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Old 01-06-07 | 12:34 AM
  #26  
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deffinately, pista concept or leader track bike style sounds awesome
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Old 01-06-07 | 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by freeskihp
deffinately, pista concept or leader track bike style sounds awesome
More Pista and less Leader.
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Old 01-06-07 | 12:39 AM
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sign me up for steel lugged frames by a smaller builder. we can all go to jacobs. his custom frames start at $850.
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Old 01-06-07 | 12:52 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by vinnydelnegro
sign me up for steel lugged frames by a smaller builder. we can all go to jacobs. his custom frames start at $850.
I'm not sure I would want to crank out a bunch of cookie cutter frames at a cut rate if I was a custom builder but if he's down count me in.

I either want something nicer than my Soma in steel or ti or an utter piece of crap I can throw some extra parts on and leave locked up in the rain 5 days a week. A Leader/Concept-style bike is not really doing it for me.
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Old 01-06-07 | 01:21 AM
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I would think the best way to do this would be to get a bulk bareknuckle order in, I'm sure you could get a discount.

If we weren't talking track, I would say just let bikesdirect do the hard work for you.
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Old 01-06-07 | 08:19 AM
  #31  
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https://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/custom.php
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Old 01-06-07 | 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnydelnegro
sign me up for steel lugged frames by a smaller builder. we can all go to jacobs. his custom frames start at $850.
Get in touch directly if you can get serious, I'm willing to work with ya'll!

jacob@jacobsbicycles.com
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Old 01-06-07 | 08:44 AM
  #33  
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OK... this is cool... but we all live in different places... where will the order be shipped to? How will they be distributed? Do we set it up with the company to drop-ship them to each individual?

I nominate the Soma Delancey... or the Cochon at TBB.
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Old 01-06-07 | 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BostonFixed
Don Walker often talked about $50 OEM frames, I bet you could do a large group buy for a frame similar to an iro/pake for under $150.
But then he also talked about how the materials for a CF frame cost $20 so I wouldn't consider him an authentic source for anything outside of custom steel framebuilding done in Texas for senior trackracers.


The idea is great. I'd soooo want a cheap ti frame. Sadly, I don't have the cash so I'm not in
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Old 01-06-07 | 03:03 PM
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Ti frames are expensive

I actually have been researching this. Due to a request from a guy on RBR and due to my own attitude about CF for ATBs.

1 - you can find 'cheap' Ti frames in China - but I do not bring frames from China. Those frames cost about the same as a Carbon Fiber Frame.

2 - there is one super good Ti maker in Taiwan. I would say the same quality as Litespeed. However, their frames are twice the cost of a good CF frame.

3 - on direct purchases it is easy to get customers a super nice monocoque carbon frame for $399 -- but for the quality I would demand on Ti the price would be more like $799

I am still thinking of this for FLY cross-country mountain bikes; but mainly due to my beleif that falling on a rock with an ATB frame should not make you wonder if you will have a total frame failure in the next mile.
I maybe testing this idea at Sea Otter

Anyway, if enough people agreed on a quality Ti frame; I can make that happen as long as Taiwan is OK with everyone. I am not ready for China [or it is not ready for me, depending on your point of view]
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Old 01-06-07 | 03:09 PM
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Taiwan is an excellent industrial resource. I'm 100% interested.
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Old 01-06-07 | 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Serendipper
Taiwan is an excellent industrial resource. I'm 100% interested.
****! Taiwan and their crap bikes. Buy American or build it yourself. If your going to spend good money support a local framebuilder...End of story
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Old 01-06-07 | 04:41 PM
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I remember there was a guy at the trexlertown swap this fall from nyc making ti track frames (he had samples there and the quality looked good) for I think around 650 (not sure tho? and this might not have included a fork). I got his business card but who knows if I can find it again.
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Old 01-06-07 | 04:42 PM
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oh and I'd be interested in the bareknuckle deal depending on the discount and my financial situation.
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Old 01-06-07 | 04:48 PM
  #40  
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I might be interested in bareknuckle.
I'd wanna stay steal
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Old 01-06-07 | 05:25 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by wheelsucker
****! Taiwan and their crap bikes. Buy American or build it yourself. If your going to spend good money support a local framebuilder...End of story
I guessing local craft builders here in the USA usually work alone, building frames one at a time. Do you know how long it would take for the builder to produce 400, or even just 100 frames (and how much each individual one would cost?).
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Old 01-06-07 | 06:07 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by LóFarkas
But then he also talked about how the materials for a CF frame cost $20 so I wouldn't consider him an authentic source for anything outside of custom steel framebuilding done in Texas for senior trackracers.


The idea is great. I'd soooo want a cheap ti frame. Sadly, I don't have the cash so I'm not in


carbon is cheap for big companies to make. they use the same molds for multiple sizes...


Ti sounds sweet as hell though.
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Old 01-06-07 | 06:14 PM
  #43  
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i'm in on this if the frame and fork don't exceed $500
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Old 01-06-07 | 06:19 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by smurfy
I guessing local craft builders here in the USA usually work alone, building frames one at a time. Do you know how long it would take for the builder to produce 400, or even just 100 frames (and how much each individual one would cost?).
Quality is worth the wait hands down. Yes, some frame builders do build alone, then again there are some who work with others. It may take the builder quite some time but at least I know the frame is AMERICAN and his or her family is fed. Cost? $$$ nothing more than what people already spend on njs second hand frames.

Last edited by wheelsucker; 01-06-07 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 01-06-07 | 06:23 PM
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Article from slowtwitch.com. Food for thought

The bike biz

The juicy part:

. You've got to get your frames made at a frame factory, because bike frames must be incredibly precise. It always makes me chuckle when I see somebody come into the bike biz from some "higher" industry, thinking that because he's been making car parts or tank turrets or airplanes or speedboats it's just got to be simpler making bikes. What these people don't realize is that the tolerances one must hold in this business are at least as close as as in just about any other industry. Consider this: I (when I was in the biz) would reject cranksets if the total runout exceeded one tenth of one millimeter at the large chainring. That means the bottom bracket, and the squarehole cut into the crank, must be absolutely perfect, and the crankarm absolutely straight. It means the metal must be sufficiently hard at that joint so as not to deflect under the heavily leveraged load applied at the pedal. Very, very hard to do.

Likewise, frames are hard to make, if you want them to be straight. It's very hard to make a frame in which the rear wheel is centered inside the chainstays, and centered underneath the rear brake hole, and where the front and rear triangle are true to each other, and where the head tube is parallel to the seat tube. It's so hard to do that, that I've seen manufacturing companies that make very precision car parts just throw up their hands after years of trying to make frames and say, "It can't be done."
As for $50 OEM frames, search the roadie forums for posts by bikesdirect owner Mike Spratt (username: bikesdirect com). Apparently, and he'd know, Al frames cost from $20-50. Columbus frames are near the top of that. Of course, you'd have to be ordering hundreds, if not thousands.
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Old 01-07-07 | 07:30 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by jacobpriest
carbon is cheap for big companies to make. they use the same molds for multiple sizes...


Ti sounds sweet as hell though.
Yeah, framebuilders use the same jig for multiple bikes as well... WTF?
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Old 01-07-07 | 11:43 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by LóFarkas
Yeah, framebuilders use the same jig for multiple bikes as well... WTF?
you didn't get it.
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Old 01-07-07 | 11:46 AM
  #48  
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Excellent discovery, my dear Watson. Hence "WTF?"
...perhaps I didn't get it because it didn't make sense. I'm talking about materials cost and you come in with building methods... my gut instinct tells me you're wrong as well.
Or was it some strange irony?...


I guess I still don't get it.
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Old 01-07-07 | 11:53 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by wheelsucker
Quality is worth the wait hands down. Yes, some frame builders do build alone, then again there are some who work with others. It may take the builder quite some time but at least I know the frame is AMERICAN and his or her family is fed. Cost? $$$ nothing more than what people already spend on njs second hand frames.
2nd hand NJS frames, except for maybe 3Renshos and Nagasawas, run $4-700, including a quality BB and HS. If you know of a builder who can even come close to that price, I'd like to know.

As for builders' families being fed, Taiwan has the 2nd highest income per capita in Asia. They also have universal health care. There aren't any more people going hungry there than in N.A.. If I could afford it, I'd buy Canadian, but it's not like standard high quality frames are made in Bangledesh.
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Old 01-07-07 | 01:47 PM
  #50  
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this is most interesting thread in a while for me. im digging on a lot of good ideas, but it seems to me for this to work we would need a lot of people behind one really good idea, just dont look at me, i like the idea of a nice lugged steel frame, or a affordable ti frame, or a cheap-o beater f-around frame. i am wondering how many orders it would take to get an existing brand like iro or soma or kogswell to run a new model? a group order would be worth it just for the banter in frame design and "how you set YOURS up" threads. it would be like a constructive interpretation of the bfssfg method. oh and count me in.
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