Messenger Breakdown
#53
Originally Posted by schmee
In other news, saying that you are the only one who understands the Tao means you don't understand the Tao.
#54
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,744
Likes: 1
From: Van BC
Originally Posted by Gadeux
you know, you dont have to love all of something to find some value in it
and hating all of something is usually silly
adam, i like some of your english tricks and forgive the ones that dont work for me
ill let you caricatures get back to the comic strip that is this thread now
and hating all of something is usually silly
adam, i like some of your english tricks and forgive the ones that dont work for me
ill let you caricatures get back to the comic strip that is this thread now
#55
Throbbing Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 729
Likes: 0
From: trout fishing in america
Bikes: many
Do you know what my Grandpa would've said? He would've said you're all a bunch of god-dammed fruitcakes. Then he would have thrown an empty beer can at you.
Because "cursorily" is dumb. It's just dumb.
Because "cursorily" is dumb. It's just dumb.
#57
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,436
Likes: 31
Originally Posted by koyman
rather, saying you understand the tao means you do not understand the tao.
I'm gonna go ride my bike and then write something prosaic and mundane about it later on. 100 words max.
#60
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Also, if I'm not mistaken you would be making better use of the language if you referred to your published canon in the singular.
More importantly, got a question for you-all: Iain Borden's book on skateboarding is, if anything, denser than mine, and just as prone to theoryspeak. He leans far more heavily than I would dare on names like Lefebvre and Foucault. And perhaps more seriously, he's never been a skater.
Despite this, the book was comparatively well-received by the skater community - I'm not sure if Thrasher or Transworld ever reviewed it, but a reviewer for Sidewalk, the British equivalent, said "There's absolutely no way I can do this book justice here...it's incredibly thought-provoking, especially from the perspective of actually being a skateboarder. I highly recommend it."
Now skaters are, for the most part, no more tolerant of bull**** than bike messengers/riders. So what do you think accounts for the fact that Borden's book seems to have pleased a very tough audience, while what I wrote for the most part just pissed you off? Do you think the fact that my piece was posted on the Web had anything to do with the difference in receptions?
#61
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 12,769
Likes: 38
From: Rocket City, No'ala
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 1985 Pinarello Treviso, 1990 Gardin Shred, 2006 Bianchi San Jose
Originally Posted by Fixxxie
Sorry if Im "functionally Illiterate" but if I had ever thought of skateboarding like that while actually skateboarding I probably would have given it up for something more exciting like say..... knitting
Anybody else every think of that S**t while skating in a pool?!?!? I can't imagine it, skateboarding is supposed to be FUN not metaphysical.
IMHO
#62
Banned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 5,317
Likes: 0
From: GA
Originally Posted by adamgreenfield
Do you think the fact that my piece was posted on the Web had anything to do with the difference in receptions?
The vast majority of post modern cultural studies are a farce of scholasticism. Theories are created and supported with the type of loose factual claims used by intelligent drunks in some meaningless argument. These are never scrutinized because the establishment that should do so has become more enamored with wordplay and exciting deconstructions then they have with relevance to reality. Such ideas are then accepted generally because they carry with them the weight of the phds that are entertained by them.
#63
Good Afternoon!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,352
Likes: 0
From: Rural Eastern Ontario
Bikes: Various by application
This particular online community often demonstrates its inability to accept anything that they determine was not born of themselves, take no offense. Many of the posts aimed at you were for the benefit of a few of this forums regular denizens. Their usual method are those catcalls etc that you saw, while some you probably noticed were critical but not needlessly insulting. Same as it ever was. It'd please the people I hang out with to be distinguished as separate from this group, some messenger may not like your writing style and generally they aren't shy about what they don't like, but only a rookie would have a "we" in their criticisms, nothing wrong with someone trying to lay some understanding down on anyones thousand yard stare, whether they're in that life or not.
#64
Originally Posted by dutret
The vast majority of post modern cultural studies are a farce of scholasticism. Theories are created and supported with the type of loose factual claims used by intelligent drunks in some meaningless argument. These are never scrutinized because the establishment that should do so has become more enamored with wordplay and exciting deconstructions then they have with relevance to reality. Such ideas are then accepted generally because they carry with them the weight of the phds that are entertained by them.
#65
I enjoyed the article, as it defined what is easily experienced but is difficult to describe, like the taste of a ripe strawberry. 165 did have a point (verbose), but if that is your style, go for it.
The masses usually don't go for higher level thinking, as exemplified by Bill O' Reiley or the box office disappointment of "Idiocracy".
"Ow, my Balls"
The masses usually don't go for higher level thinking, as exemplified by Bill O' Reiley or the box office disappointment of "Idiocracy".
"Ow, my Balls"
#66
Originally Posted by teiaperigosa
sorry...this IS good writing
the problem with good writing is that the functionally illiterate are often unable to appreciate it and often knock it because they are unable to do so.
the problem with good writing is that the functionally illiterate are often unable to appreciate it and often knock it because they are unable to do so.
#67
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by adamgreenfield
Now skaters are, for the most part, no more tolerant of bull**** than bike messengers/riders. So what do you think accounts for the fact that Borden's book seems to have pleased a very tough audience, while what I wrote for the most part just pissed you off?
#68
Originally Posted by adamgreenfield
So what do you think accounts for the fact that Borden's book seems to have pleased a very tough audience, while what I wrote for the most part just pissed you off?
#69
The King of Town

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 681
Likes: 0
From: Richmond, VA
Bikes: Haro Backtrail 20" (MISSING), Fuji Berkeley fixie, Huffy cruisercommuterdeathmobile
"ambient informatics"?
Good attempt, and good quality for a blog, but if I saw this in print on a piece of paper I'd demand that the author be a little more to the point and do a little less theory-flexing. Real gangsta-ass bloggers don't flex words, 'cause real gangsta-ass bloggers know they got 'em.
And this is not to be a jerk, just some constructive criticism. I understand and like what you're going for.
Good attempt, and good quality for a blog, but if I saw this in print on a piece of paper I'd demand that the author be a little more to the point and do a little less theory-flexing. Real gangsta-ass bloggers don't flex words, 'cause real gangsta-ass bloggers know they got 'em.
And this is not to be a jerk, just some constructive criticism. I understand and like what you're going for.
#70
I enjoy pissing contests like this one soooo much more than pissing contests about track drops and deep v's. An old roomate once told me that one of the reasons he liked skateboarding was because of the way it allows the skater to establish a different relationship with architectural elements in the environment. He was also working on his MA in art history so was also speaking from a more academic position than most skate boarders I guess. Since that conversation I have come to see riding a bicycle in a city (or any environment I suppose), as having a similar effect.
I lived in Chicago for 2 1/2 years before I started to commute by bicycle. Riding changed my perspective on different neighbohrhoods and spaces in the city. One misses a lot when taking public transit. I now look at the road differently. Before it was a forbidden zone, only for cars. Now I feel way more comfortable not only riding but walking in it as well. I have had several discussions with friends who ride bikes about how we have no problem walking down the middle of the street or sitting on curbs just hanging out. We attributed this tendency to biking often which allowed us to see the street as "inhabitable".
Maybe having these thoughts and discussions makes me a navel gazer and out of touch with reality but I think a lot of people take pleasure in parts of life for lots of little reasons. They may not be able to put them into words or even want to but I enjoy talking about them and appreciate that others do as well.
I lived in Chicago for 2 1/2 years before I started to commute by bicycle. Riding changed my perspective on different neighbohrhoods and spaces in the city. One misses a lot when taking public transit. I now look at the road differently. Before it was a forbidden zone, only for cars. Now I feel way more comfortable not only riding but walking in it as well. I have had several discussions with friends who ride bikes about how we have no problem walking down the middle of the street or sitting on curbs just hanging out. We attributed this tendency to biking often which allowed us to see the street as "inhabitable".
Maybe having these thoughts and discussions makes me a navel gazer and out of touch with reality but I think a lot of people take pleasure in parts of life for lots of little reasons. They may not be able to put them into words or even want to but I enjoy talking about them and appreciate that others do as well.
#71
Senior Member

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,436
Likes: 31
To be fair, I read it through and it's pretty good. I was just having a bit of fun.
I'm just allergic to academic analysis in the soft sciences; most get lost in the flowery rhetoric dutret refers to, and the type of person that enjoys that stuff most is often the worst at doing the activity being written about. They tend to confuse their linguistic constructs with actual knowledge.
I'm just allergic to academic analysis in the soft sciences; most get lost in the flowery rhetoric dutret refers to, and the type of person that enjoys that stuff most is often the worst at doing the activity being written about. They tend to confuse their linguistic constructs with actual knowledge.
#72
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
"ambient informatics"?
I wrote a book about it (some commentary here) and am teaching a class on a closely-related subject.
#73
"They tend to confuse their linguistic constructs with actual knowledge."
bingo! not saying that that is the case here, but in general i find this to be true. "***********y language" is something that has always been a pet peeve of mine. sure, write for an academic audience, but elevate the writing with intelligent ideas, not 10 cent language. flowery language is typically used to hide conceptual inadequacies or compensate for the author's insecurities. i don't think that's the case with adam's article though. my issue with the article isn't the language, it's just the limitations inherent in analyzing a lived experience. same reason i hate most books that look at the punk/hardcore scene.
also, after reading about Everyware a bit, i really want to check it out.
bingo! not saying that that is the case here, but in general i find this to be true. "***********y language" is something that has always been a pet peeve of mine. sure, write for an academic audience, but elevate the writing with intelligent ideas, not 10 cent language. flowery language is typically used to hide conceptual inadequacies or compensate for the author's insecurities. i don't think that's the case with adam's article though. my issue with the article isn't the language, it's just the limitations inherent in analyzing a lived experience. same reason i hate most books that look at the punk/hardcore scene.
also, after reading about Everyware a bit, i really want to check it out.
Last edited by evanyc; 01-31-07 at 11:52 AM.
#74
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by adamgreenfield
What happens when networked sensors, screens and other information-processing devices are embedded in architectural and public space. I think it changes just about everything - privacy, politics, the experience of place...everything.
I wrote a book about it (some commentary here) and am teaching a class on a closely-related subject.
I wrote a book about it (some commentary here) and am teaching a class on a closely-related subject.

You can draw a lot of ears your way by talking about how special now is; Thomas Friedman, for one, has made a substantial career and a pretty penny out of it, and politicians wouldn't keep doing it if it didn't work. But that doesn't change the fundamental vapidity of the claim.
#75
Banned
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 5,317
Likes: 0
From: GA
Originally Posted by Landgolier
This gets to the core of why writing and ideas like this make me want to draw the shades and spend the rest of the week reading old books. Now is not special. If you think now is special, you are wrong.
I once read an essay titled "the big bomb and the little pill." It was hilariously illustrative of your point.




