I don't think that will happen. You see, if Red Bull wanted to have a guy ride around with a red bull T-shirt on, they would just start selling T-shirts, and some guy would do it without being paid. Happens all the time; I'm providing free advertising for Nike right now at a coffeshop.

We have the same concept in Copenhagen.. (but who was first?) Same bags and size of ad..We run an ad now for Max Havelaar/Fair trade -thats cool, but we have also had crap ones.. But I can choose not to go to work and not get paid if I dont like it.. :-)

There is always danger for those who are afraid.

Percentage wise, how many people remain messengers very long? If accurate data was kept, I venture to guess less than 10% of those who start remain messengers longer than, say, 4 years.

Unionizing is the only answer to getting a decent wage, and making the job more appealing. Other wise, it's just a job to have held for someone's perception of "cool". There's a niche that bike messengers fill, and it could be a bigger niche, a better niche, and they could get recognition for what they do. There is room for growth, with gas prices only increasing, a demand for "greener" things and people's disastifaction with the status quo. But, with out unity, nothing prevails. Even for the free spirited bike riders.

Why would that be dependent on a job? I have much more in common with my friends as opposed to people who happen to have the same job as I do.

25-30 years ago (prefax) my father made more money/week as a messenger than most messengers do today. and this is just straight checks- not adjusted for inflation or anyting.


and the "messenger scene" is draggin everybody down

the "messenger scene" doesnt have anything to do with actual messenger work as far as pay goes, and rarely have I seen any posengers last very long in the job either

decent messenger these days can easily knock down $1000 per week, even more if your indie and have your act together, but most are lucky to make $100 per day, that is one of the attractions of the job, there's very little BS or politics---------you work hard, you get paid accordingly, its about as close to darwinian capitalism as it gets

I find the messenger scene kinda funny myself, I think its hysterical that people actually work at it to both look like and act like messengers LOL. Very similar to the OCP thing on the roadie forum.

This dude is the man really. If he is kicking it on that bike, he is a beast.

there is a difference between the scene and the carfree or event he bike mechanics and bike people I am a bike advocate in my city as well as a mechanic and have done and will do messenger work ocassionally

its funny when I see kids out riding around all agressive and crazy on a shiny brakeless fixie with a bag on their back yet at all of the races and polo games only a hand full of those same people show up and play or race

generally around here we respect people who ride and no how to ride and we generally give everyone on two wheels a chance hell atleast they are out of te suvs

how much would a starting messenger expect to make? i'm thinking in portland specifically, so pedex feel free to field this one if you want.

different things come along with different jobs i guess.

pedex aint in portland

And we have a winner!

ahh ****, i don't know what gave me that idea that he was than...

8~10 if your on hourly if your comission and fast you can make a good deal of money

isn't pedex in santa cruz

Of course they do, but to get your identity from your job is just plain sad.

One interesting thing about messing in Charlotte. The four of us that have been here the longest don't "dress like messengers". No small t-shirts, rolled up jeans, chain wallets, cotton hoodies, or riding around without helmets. Leave it to the other guys who don't have children to keep up the image. Fashion tends to take a backseat to practicality when you get old.
How can they stand to wear jeans on a rainy day??

Unless you find yourself in the enviable position of actually doing what you want. Getting your identity from a job you settled for in a fast food joint or a cube farm is sad. Rick the Fireman probably doesn't mind, and finds much of his life wrapped up in the community centered around the firehouse with the others there. A unique work enviroment filled with eclectic, interesting people will draw anyone into its community, an auto-dialer....not so much.

i think this is an american mentality. in america you'll see a lot of "I AM A LAWYER/DOCTOR/BUSINESSMAN/ETC., THAT IS WHO I AM" type of ****, and people with the same careers tend to do things like eat out at dinner together, attend parties together, etc. i don't agree with it wholly, but if you're a messenger and want to hang out with others who do the same thing as you, whats the problem?

Is this sentiment common in your country? In America job (and associated class) is a key part of how most people construct their identities. When adults meet each other, one of the first things most will ask is "what do you do?"

Some jobs bring with them a lifestyle and community. This is epecialy true if your job is also your hobby or home. Other jobs bring a strong community such as farming where lots of the work is done in solitude but some work needs irregular help so you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours e.t.c

A strong community for any job helps when things seem to be looking bad.

Yeah when I was doing it full time I loved when people asked me what I do and I would say, "I build guitars." Actually I really do hate the "what do you do line". It does seem pretty shallow to me to judge some one based on what they 'do'.

Sorry getting off topic here...

messengers sticking together is part tribe mentality and part survival instinct, we help each other and compete at the same time----I wont hesitate for one second to take a customer away from someone else, but at the same time I will help if you get hurt or your bike breaks down

there's about 18 of us in a city of 1.1 million people, we are rare, very very rare------Im proud of what I do, people depend on me to get stuff done, my customers respect what I do for them, if that's part of my identity then that's fine, I have no problem with that

to bystanders that dont know me personally, im the guy with a bandana on my head and a big yellow bag zooming around downtown on a bike, and if they look at me like that, that's ok with me too, its what I do, im also car free and live downtown

I dont hang out with the groupies or posengers, but I can understand the attraction some have for the lifestyle, like I said above, we are very rare, few people have the guts and determination to do what we do. Im ok with my identity, are you ok with yours? that's what matters, life is too short to work a job you dont like or be something your not

I'm an American who left America years ago, so I'm aware what the American mentality is. That being said, it's not so common to dwell on what one's job is here. A buddy of mine just stopped by to borrow a wheel and it came up that he had time to do somethings he had been wanting to do for a while. It turns out he just quit his job. I know a lot about him, have gotten pissed drunk with his mother on moonshine, know his sisters etc, but had no idea what he did for money. Why should that be important to our friendship?

I love my job. I am my own boss, work with wonderful people and do something positive to help others. But it doesn't define who I am as a person. It is only one part of what I do and who I am.

thats great, and works out well for you, thats fine. I know I have a job, that because of the shared unique experiences of my profession means I have a lot in common with many of the people who share my profession. Also since my profession is also my hobby and my passion, along with many others who have it, it becomes interesting to know others who share the same job, share the same unique experiences, and have the same passions.

I dont know this this "defines who I am as a person" , but I know i picked this profession BECAUSE of who I am as a person, and not just randomly out of a hat, and so it does say something about who I am as a person.

You can't seriously believe that anyone defines themselves entirely by what they do for income or work, can you? It's one of the most common assessments people make of others and themselves. It should be.

If you can agree with that then you can certainly see why some people took umbrage to the black and white statement you made that implied people who identify themselves as/with bike messengers are "sad". In the context of this thread that is what you said.

Just what is it you do, one "my own boss, philanthropic type" to another? Is it so rewarding you feel the need to act all cool & better than others online? Rewarding that way?