I'm gonna build up a wheelset soon and i want to make a
set of wheels that will last me as long as possible
with minimal maintainance.

-here's whats decided:
-brass nipples (cause alloy corodes to spokes over time)
-silver spokes double butted spokes (for flexibility)
-phil wood hubs (ugly but nearly bulletproof)
-no brake machining
-no silver rims
-i'd like them to be white ideally, but black is good if
function manages to outweigh aesthetics
-don't really want deep Vs cause i'm pretty sick of em


what i want to know:

-has anyone tried open pro CDs? what is the finish like?
does it hold up to nicks and scratches well?
-do velocity fusions come in white?
-it there a difference in durability between high flange and
low flange phills? is there a major weight savings?
-how does radial compare to 3 cross?

if anyone has any suggestions or experience with similar wheelsets let me know

I have Open Pro ceramics on my Colnago. They are old and still pretty.
Built 3x to Phils would be yer forever wheels.



PS- Phils aren't ugly.

open pro ceramics are different from the cds. i believe that the finish on the cd's is a flat black with no brake machining.

open pros are pretty different from fusions, which it's worth mentioning are pretty deep in their own right...

it's also worth mentioning that i have read (can't quote a source) that a 36-spoked wheel with box section rims will still be stronger than a 32-spoked wheel with aero rims. don't take it as the gospel, but i seem to remember having read that before.

i don't really think phils are ugly. the finish is fantastic and i like the harware they use a lot, but they look like a butch lesbian compared to campy record hubs.

i don't think i want to try and afford the extra 25 dollars per rim the ceramic open pro goes for. however, if anyone has tried both i'd be interested to hear how the finish holds up(without brakes)

get a hold of the open 4 cd's.
or campy omega aero section rims in clincher.

+1, they are pretty

first your a dumbass for saying phils are ugly
second I have probably the most bombproff wheelset ever (I weight 220# ride like a maniac and destroy all)
phil wood hf hubset single fixed(wider flanges make a stronger wheel) straight 14g spoke 36h 3x to mavic cxp-22 I would have got open pros but I didn't have enough money at the time

1. dude. calm down. i'm a dumbass cause i think that phils have less finesse than other hubs? i really think that's going overboard.

2. good to know


true beauty:


sheldons pic^

well they sure as hell aren't as elegant looking as my mavics but they are like a tank man and they are based here in calipornia

Not Open Pro, just Open, I guess.

Fusions do come in white, but if you read the thread a few days ago, you may want to go with a Mavic rim as it seems they are made better. Personally, I've never ridden Mavic rims and I've never had a problem with a Velocity rim, either.

Go high flange for a more solid wheel...think of the distance between the spoke nipple to the hub flange...it's shorter with high flange...stronger wheel.

Radial is structurally not as strong as a 3-cross, definitely go 3-cross...you're riding on the street, correct?

mavic open pros are said to develop cranks along the rim

i have never heard anything about mavics developing cracks... where have you read that?

i've always been under the impression that they look like this...

regular open pro and ceramics:


open pro cd:


edit: apparently, there's also an open pro ceramic cd, which i guess is a little more glossy?

i've heard that the process of hard anodizing makes rims prone to cracking. but, i've heard of people having open 4 cds for 10 plus years without cracks.

Open Pros are not prone to cracking but the MA-3/Open Sports have been known to crack around the eyelets.

crow's foot!

again, there you have it - mavic is the ****... except for those i guess

it's worth mentioning that i have some ma40s on my cannondale roadie that i inherited from the old man that have been going strong for 20+ years (36h)

I've had bad luck with MA3's, but I'm heavy.
Zero probs with OP's ever.

yes... these are the ****

Where did you get this information from?

There's a thread on this in the bicycle mechanics forum, and from reading the thread the answer is yes, no and maybe.

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/286419-wheelbuilders-brass-vs-aluminum-nipples.html

i worked at a boat shop and i was a deckhand on a ship for a short time. if there isn't a buffer between aluminum and steel(grease, silicone, or spoke prep) the corosion of the aluminum will bond to the steel and fuse the metals. this is much worse of a problem in a marine environment like where i live. this is why you should grease your seatpost and your quill stems. i've heard of factory build wheelsets that don't use spoke prep fusing after a year or two of riding in rain.

brass doesn't corrode in the same way and will stand up better for a longer period of time. i've also heard they are less prone to threads stripping.

in addition they're cheaper and i don't really need to save weight.

I wasn't disagreeing with the statement, I was just curious as to the way it was stated. For what its worth, the difference in anodic index of brass to steel really isn't much better than aluminum to steel. You'll end up with galvanic corrosion either way.


I was under the impression brass was chosen over aluminum for strength concerns, but I haven't built enough wheels to comment on that personally.

i agree that brass corrodes and eventually binds to steel, but i've heard of alloy nipples binding more than brass. not saying it doesn't happen, but, it seems to me that it takes longer for a problem to start as long as there is you prep the spoke in the first place.