any preference to surly or miche hubs for a back wheel. which is better quality?

im pretty sure miche are

I'd go for miche (although it's generally a bit more expensive).

Miche are better.

they are very nearly the same price in the QBP catalog, but miche is more track and surly is more street

the tubular wheels that came with my bike were laced to primatos and those were probably the best I've ever ridden on, but that is a limited experience of two weeks and I'm not in the "the hub makes the wheel" camp

I don't think Miche uses seals meant for everyday riding. They're track specific so you'll end up overhauling the bearings more than surlys.

I don't know about that. Both use cartridge bearings, so I doubt you'll really have to deal with the bearings often enough to be a nuisance or not.

I'd go with Miche, unless you want to run two differently sized cogs.

the above is a good point. Didn't think about that.

Yes. But. Miche use cartridge bearings with seals meant for low drag, not sealing the bearings. It'll keep light amounts of dust out, like the stuff in controlled velodrome environments, but once on the street the seals don't stand up to the crap that they are given. Formula, Novatec, Surly and all the other 'street' track hub manufacturers use sealed bearings with seals made to keep all kinds of crap out. That's why come sealed hubs feel smoother/faster than others (in your hand at least), the seals provide drag. The better the seal, the more drag. Spin a Chris King rear in your hand, they have a ****ton of seal drag, but they are bombproof and still great hubs to ride.

I've ridden Miche hubs on my usual bike that only gets snow and rain by accident, but over a year and probably several hundred kms in rain and maybe a hundred in unexpected salty snow/slush, my wheels spin nicely, have no grotty feeling, and look brand new after a wipe.

Other sealed hubs I've ridden for the same amount of time (Formula and Kogswell) are totally grotty and would probably have been overhauled or had the bearings replaced by someone pickier than me a long time ago. The IRO/Kogswell rear of my winter bike had some serious grottiness after just a month or so of winter riding in mostly dry conditions.

I'd say six of one, half dozen of the other - the other bikes got ridden in the nasty more often, but the Miches hardly died after they got wet or dirty. If you're dropping 70 bucks for a rear hub, I'd say you're fine with either, but the Miches are prettier, plus the Italian factor. Go by looks, unless you've ever flipped your wheel over in the middle of a ride - I haven't in 3 years of one speed bikes.

The Miche hubs, however, are compatible with the Miche Cog Carrier system (splined cogs, and spliny-thing threaded onto the hub)- quick-ish cog changes w/ a lockring wrench. No flip-flop, I know, but it's somthing..

well, most say that any hub is compatible with any cog, unless you're racing different events on the track and changing JIS on ISO all the time or vice versa; I never tried the Miche cog thing because my hub came with a 15 and I was running a different ratio. Re: the micro difference, I just got a Phil cog because I was feeling spendy, but you're hardly limited either, with EAI, Phil, Miche and Campy all working per spec.

surly's good, miche's better.

if it matters to you, miche is also commonly available in 28h, and i think the surly 'new' is 32 or 36.

I'm pretty sure the bearings that come in Miche hubs are sealed the same way as anyother cartridge bearings. At least mine were the same when i pulled em out to change them. If they are different you can just buy new bearings and change them yourselft. Its pretty easy and they are only a few bucks.