MONSTER Toe Overlap!
 

This has been covered many times but generally favor toward the mild cases of it. I need feedback from those who ride with this much overlap
http://oldskooltrack.com/files/images/overlap.gif
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005...hrenwald-4.jpg

I'm in the works of trading for a bike with this much but want those who actually ride with this much, in the street, to tell me is it annoying/dangerous for them. I have experience with toe overlap and its not a problem but never had this much so just need any tips on how to handle. Thanks

*btw i wear a 13 and I know about the clipless helping a bit

the first pic and second pic are way different.

i ride with about the amount in the first pic it's only a prob a slow speeds.

i would never ride a bike with as much overlap as the second pic.

edit: i guess they are the same. nevermind. i just had to look at it a second time. for some reason the bottom one looks way tighter.

it also looks like the cranks are longer than 165mm in teh second pic. i think...

I thought the same thing.

Get shorter cranks.
Duh.

That's some serious overlap as it's not just your toe but the pedal looks like it could strike the wheel.

The most overlap I have on any bike is just enough for the toe clip to brush the wheel and even that interfered a little with trackstands...a switch to 700:25 wheels and tires from the 27 by 1's really helped to eliminate the toe overlap issue.

Of course... I only have to deal with size 8 feet.

What does your fork look like ?

joke? 5mm is not going to cure that

Maybe you should show some pics of the actual bike in question.

shorter toeclips too.. haha. i head from L to M mks toeclips, you get 1.5cm shorter.

you're doin' it wrong.

i ride with that much. you get used to it after a while

here it is
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005...Vahrenwald.htm

I often ride home from work (13 km) and never have to touch the ground... doing it on the Peugeot (with the toe overlap) requires that I pay attention to my foot position whereas I don't have to do this with the other girls.

That's a great looking bike and the geometry is pretty tight... the full size pics don't make the toe overlap look as extreme as I thought it was although it's still on the extreme end of the scale.

If it was an insurmountable problem then changing the fork could offer more clearance but we would not want to go there.

Learn to trackstand correctly.

what he means is turn your wheel towards the foot that is forward,
with your trailing foot opposite the direction in which the wheel is turned
it aint no problem

I taught myself how to trackstand that way. Its so great having 4 ways of tracking! Its def a little tough to learn though if you learned how to trackstand the common way

i don't have toe overlap problems because i just stop, put both feet down, and then pick up the bike into my crotch by the stem and saddle and shift my hips around to point the bike in another direction.

with my super amazing skid stop skillz and ultra-nutty peanut buttery silk-smooth technique for picking up the bike while over the top tube, i can actually turn faster this way than I can by timing my turns with my pedal positions.

in fact, i can do it faster than riding a wheelie and turning in unicycle-mode.

i also have the added bonus of pretending i'm in a game of TRON while on my rides.

you can trackstand with overlap of course, since all njs frames (i assume most track frames) will give you some overlap unless you are using 165 cranks with size S (or maybe M) mks clips and have a resonable long top tube length. Zefal are very long. L size is 1.7cm longer than njs mks steel L size.
I just changed from zefal to MKS 2 days ago, and measured the difference. Both are cheap too.
but....if you start riding backwards in circles or want to change directions you are trackstanding, etc...you will have problems with overlap.
I have had 3 frames as my daily bikes in the past 10 days, 2 were way too small, just to get me by, and now I have one that fits. The 520 and 530 frames I had overlapped like crazy, but the 550 I have now just taps here and there, not very dangerous at all.
I think a 570 frame would be pretty much void of overlapping.
A lot of guys over here in Osaka run 650C front wheels, because a lot of them are riding sub-53 frames, there is a lot of overlapping problems.
That overlap in the OP's photo is a nightmare! It must be a 49cm frame or something.

PS cranks are going to make ****-all difference, to anyone who suggested that. Even going from a 175mm superbe pro to a 165mm (min and max length I think), you are going to take off 1cm. Clips alone can do much more, and cost 10 bucks, but I guess wont be the ideal size after you change :(

develop a system where you can cut off your feet and attach your stumps to clips.

^ that made me laugh so much

Not for nothing, but that geometry is going to really beat you up in NYC.

i have 2mm clearence bet my tire & down tube,overlap is bad news on this bike.

the conclusion - extreme track geometries are simply dumb for the street?

i think it would be tough going in Osaka too!

And not just because of overlap either. I love my track bike for City cycling, and it does have some overlap. It has moderate TRACK geometry which gives it sports car like handling on the streets. I just make sure to use the rear fork ends to my advantage and that gives me slightly longer effective chainstays. Problem over than overlap of the pedals with the front wheels is once the fork rake gets too vertical, the angles get too steep, and the chainstays get too short, the result becomes two fold. First, the bike becomes twitchy. Twitchy may have some use on a smooth velodrome, but does work well in the streets. It is exhausting to constantly be correcting a twitchy bicycle to keep it on track (no pun intended) through NYC's uneven pavement, cobbles, grates, and potholes. Secondly, the road conditions on a bike with these angles and short wheelbase will translate too much vibration to the rider throughout City rides. This will beat the rider up over a long ride. The best way I can explain it is the bike pictured is the equivalent of driving an F1 race car in NYC. Most track bikes are the equivalent of driving a Lotus Elise in NYC.

i have been doing alot of thinking about it and I decided to not go with the trade. Its just too much to worry about and would take the fun out of riding. Thanks for your input folks.

for what its worth, I have LL sized MKS steel clips on RX-1's/167.5 cranks and on Sylan Lites/165 cranks and with both I get hardly any toe overlap (if it is timed perfectly the tire will hit the last 2cm of my clips) . with my clipless on there is near none. both frames are in the 56-58 range and are decommissioned keirin/NJS though. as such I never have any problem trackstanding or riding at slow speeds with the overlap. I track stand with my wheel turned slightly toward my forward foot.

i suggest the owner of the second bike pictured grows like a foot or two and gets a longer top tube.

less rake makes the bike more stable. steeper head angle will make it steer quicker. a balance between the two is what matters. one thing though...the shorter rake will probably be accomapnied by a shorter chainstay which together can make the wheelbase a good bit shorter. i think that is what makes the bike feel more twitchy.
steeper angles will surely ride harsher.