nothing wrong with being a vinyl purist, but i think people who use ableton and cdjs to mix arent any less a dj than a guy on technics.. like someone said before, ableton enables you to do stuff that you would never be able to do with just normal turntables alone. if theres new technology that helps bring your mixing to the next level, why limit yourself to the old stuff?

In regards to the beatmatching comments...Beatmatching does not mean that you stay at the same BPM all night. You have no clue what you are talking about.

In regards to vinyl...vinyl is dead. Kinda. The fact of the matter is, I still carry a small bag of some stuff (generally newer things that I have yet to bump down to my laptop and my control records), but that is it. Otherwise it is the laptop and serato scratch live interface and two tables. For those that don't know what I am talking about. ScratchLive and various other digital vinyl interfaces work by using control records that send a signal to the laptop and allows you to control whatever digital track you are playing as if it was right there pressed on vinyl. It allows me to have way more selection in the tracks I play as well as keeping my vinyl collection in mint condition (I don't have to worry about destroying a rare pressing, I just bump it to the laptop and use a control record to play it in the same manner).

If you are in the game and you expect to keep doing it you are going to be eventually using ScratchLive (or some equivalent). The options it gives you and the things you are able to do with it just make the mix that much better. It isn't that it makes it easier (you are not just pressing a key on the laptop and having it do the work (unless you are being lazy and need a break)), but it creates a whole new level of mixing.

If you want to check out some guys who are still using their turntables as well as ScratchLive, check out my boys, Flosstradamus. They spin together (4 tables) and each have a laptop (and an occasional keyboard) and do some great work and always put on a good show.

Worth noting that if you're using TCV (time coded vinyl) then you're not using any auto-beatmatching functions, which seems to be the biggest misperception.

I am all for laptop DJs! I think those interfaces and programs are great and really useful, but I have a soft spot for records. I work on computers everyday and own more than my fair share of gadgets. I just love the sound of a needle and the crackle of vinyl. HiFi audio is lost is a sea of over compressed, low bit rate crap. I know that more people are using better encoding. I jam an iPod everyday, but just prefer my records.

why beat match? we all know that a song has a beginning and an end. just play it. you're trying to just act like you have some special skill. djs really need to be taken down a peg. everyone will dance just the same. nobody's brain is going to stop because a song ends and another begins.

There's a reason house tracks are usually almost 10 minutes long.

Foo.

hahaha, you have no idea what you're talking about

But, you can use programs to adjust your files ahead of time so that they are the same speed and/or key.




Blasphemer!


And that's why I don't like it (well that, and the analog vs digital thing). If you wanna play the hot tracks then you gotta pay the price. The price being: carrying a heavy load, and wearing out precious records. I sometimes play records that cost up to $500 each and I only get paid $25 per night on average. 'Cos that's what it's about. But don't get me wrong, I'll buy a reissue if I can. I know someone who thinks THAT is cheating - I guess we all draw our own line in the sand. As for people like Mixmaster Mike and Carl Cox who can earn more than $50000 for a single gig using the new-fangled devices like Serato et al, well let me just say it doesn't increase my respect for them.


You could be right. I'm not in the game, I only do it fun. And if you want to do things the same way that the pioneers did them and not make the decision based on what is the easy option, and what gives you the most profit, then use the vinyl.

I do know what I'm talking about.
Beat matching matters only to your small little group of hanger-oners. Everyone dances the same. You're losing your edge.

a good DJ plays to the crowd. you bring your specials, your new stuff, and lotsa old stuff too. play to the crowd, surprise them, but don't bore them. that is how to stay employed as a club DJ. if the crowd wants 130 all night then give it to them, but break it up too. DJ has several jobs. keep the floor packed, keep the wallflowers interested, don't be too predictable...etc...and discover certified club hits before the other DJ's...and also know when you have crap, it is crap.

OK fine, beatmatching doesn't matter, but to create a seamless mix without any particularly jarring changes, you're probably going to want to beatmatch.

How do you mix, please describe it?

Yes, yes. I know. But I said..."Kinda" I still love my vinyl. And play it. And still technically spin with vinyl. I just also use a technical advancement so I can do more and cater to the crowd even better.


Well, I will let you stay with your purist ideals of the "good ole" days, but even if you are doing it for fun these new digital setups make it even more fun.

PS-I really don't see the point of destroying a $500 pressing. Please, if you truly love your vinyl, you will bump it down to digital (I swear you can sample at a really high bit rate and unless you are a superhero it will be hard to tell the difference) and save it. Don't destroy it by spinning it. Save it and enjoy it at home where you can treat it nice and take care of it (a hard thing to do while out spinning at a show). In all honesty, the crowd will not care if you are spinning the original pressing or if you are using a control record to spin the digital copy of the original.

PS - iamarapgod - wtf? You crack me up. Are you that ****** bag who is too drunk to notice and just dances like an idiot with whatever **** he can grab. I bet you take your shirt off too and try to flex while dancing. If you think matching beats is stupid, then do me a favor and go mix two songs and different bpms. You should love it or come to your senses.

I've been playing for about 13 years now, though not seriously for the last 5 or so years. But I did play clubs and parties professionally in NY, LA, and played out of town occasionally. I used to run a small label called Infinite Jazz along with a friend. http://www.discogs.com/label/Infinite+Jazz and did some production as Standard White Issue. As far as dance stuff, I mostly play deep house and housey slow breaks, but these days, when I play, I usually just play a mix of whatever I like -- rock, soul, hip-hop.

I play vinyl because that's what I have and that's what I'm used to. I have played on the CD decks too, and they feel fine to me also, though (personally) I'd mainly use them to play unreleased stuff if I used them at all. Maybe I'd be more "in the [digital] game" if I were DJing more, but I just don't have the inclination to use a computer or make extensive use of CDs. I have played around with Final Scratch or Serrato a time or two, and the technology feels pretty "natural". In any event, I don't have anything against it, but so far, I don't really have a compelling reason to try and use it either. Maybe you can do some cool tricks with the new technology, but honestly, I've been playing for 13 years, and I still don't feel like I've come close to hitting the limits of two or three turntables and a mixer. In my opinion, the hardest part of DJing is programming and track selection, and that doesn't change no matter what technology you're using to get the job done.

The main driving force here is availability of music. For a long time, vinyl was the only format that good dance music was being put out on. Granted, you can digitize vinyl, but that's not something that everyone's going to do. Now, we're finally at a point where a lot of music is being put out in digital form. I know this is true, though on one level it makes me sad (especially to hear about a lot of vinyl plants going out of business or raising prices). But I digress.... we're finally at a tipping point, and I think we'll see even less vinyl in the coming years, though I'm sure we'll have people who continue to DJ primarily on vinyl for a long time.

To me, it's a little sad to hear about kids starting out now who have never learned how to mix the "traditional" way. I think there are a lot of things about the way we used to have to learn to DJ that ended up forcing us into an understanding of the music... people coming up now will have to learn that stuff in a different way. Technology is always a mixed blessing. Computers have freed us from a lot of artificial technical constraints, so they lower the bar in some sense - at the same time, having more possibilities means you really have to know what you want. So in some sense the bar has been lowered, but in another sense, it's been raised.

As far as matching beats (and we're mostly talking about disco, house, etc. here - hip-hop and rock can work with a lot more cuts or quick fades), I can see both sides. Ultimately, the goal is to keep people dancing and have the songs flow together naturally. Sometimes, beat matching is a good way to accomplish this, but IMO, it shouldn't be a hard and fast rule. I'd rather play a good song and work it in abruptly than a crappy song that's perfectly beat matched. I have heard legendary DJs like François K and David Mancuso who are known for not beat matching (FK has spoken out against the "tyranny" of beat matching, though he does it sometimes; Mancuso doesn't even wear headphones) play, and they can still mix the pants out of anyone in this thread.

And no... just because you beat match some / most of the time doesn't mean the tempo has to be a steady 124 (or whatever) all night. You can do slow tempo changes over time, mix cutting and beat matching, or beat match for the most part but match it up. Beat matching is an important skill to have for a DJ, even if you don't use it all the time (or even if you have $GIZMO that does it for you).

Anyway, c'mon folks. I guess it's pointless to say "be reasonable" on an Inter-web forum, but stop making things so black and white!

Hey guy, why don't you take it somewhere else...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvJVgkHx-_I
Average mother ****er can't do this....

perfect way to end this thread!!!
love it
now to go practice that last scratch;)

been djing for 9 years.

first 5 were mainly jungle/dnb, but I got really sick of the music and lack of progress....

last 4 have been sampling/scratching with two buddies (2 djs, 4 turntables, one hand-drummer)

i also had a little stint in a trip-hop band with a female vocalist, mc, 2 programmers/knob tweakers, and a drummer.

My name is DJ I don't do it, my wife does, she's a dj/producer, living in chicago running a digital distribution company for over 100 record labels. You can download a few of her mixes here http://theladyfoursquare.com/ it's a site that never got going. You can check a few remixes she's done at http://www.myspace.com/theladyfoursquare She also just did a remix for Pierre http://www.beatport.com/labels/afro+acid+digital

anyway, thought there might be at least a few interested in that from what I've read. :)

i totally agree. most djs(drum and bass kids are the worst with this) beat match everything and never change anything. and then act like it's some special difficult skill, when it's fatiguing. but there do need to be nice fades and changes, abrupt stops and starts are nice too.

and i can beat match. got rid of my turntables years ago when my laptop could hold thousands of songs and play several at once while allowing me to add effects, sample on the fly, create loops, multiple cue points, better orginaization, and link me to millions of bedroom producers from the world over. funniest part is nobody knows what a song is being played from when its through giant speakers in a big room.

and i do get trashed take my shirt off and dance with whatever ****. it's fun. you try that sometime.

i have a friend that has been pestering me to start DJing, and i gotta admit, it's pretty tempting. i'd need to get a mixer and another turntable if i decided to do it for real, but for now i just have a question: are there any decent lightweight dj programs for older PPC macs? free is always better! i've tried a few programs, but they were too sluggish (like, the song playing would freeze while loading the next track. LAME).

i'm rocking a G4 Powerbook 1.5ghz, 2gb ram. i know it's pretty much obsolete, but it's what i've got to work with.

I'm using Torq on my 1.2GHz iBook. It's a lot more power hungry than Serato, but also much cheaper with more possibilities (effects, ReWire slave hookup to Ableton Live, etc). Torq 1.5 is coming out soon, so look for that.

Ok, now I understand what you mean. It does get very tiring to beat match songs that all sound the same. That is how I started with drum and bass, house, and breakbeats, but that got old fast because there was very little to no progression in the music being released. Now when I play I play whatever feels right for the crowd and me(but no 'techno,' vague I know, but the best way to describe it). I guess you would throw me into the indie-pop-retro category (but I have no clue, it changes all the time).

I was under the impression that you meant there should be NO beatmatching which just threw me completely off. And I agree beatmatching from one song to the next can be boring as **** (what is worse is a "DJ" who just lets a track fade out and then fade into the next one).

What programs are you using on your laptop?

PS - I am still pissed off about a show I was at recently that fell apart because about a dozen ****** bags who didn't even know the music being played got really trashed and took of their shirts, danced too wildly, tried to hang from lighting rigs and basically ruined the show for me. Sorry, I just don't like having other peoples back sweat all up on me. That is where that random insult came from.

I would try it sometime, but I am generally not a fan of *****. Although they are funny to watch and make fun of.

I remember when i had the house on fire, it was a halloween night, and the joint was jumpin and i was on...had a pile of fresh wax from NYC...having a good day and it seemed I couldn't find one dead tune, everyone was happy. I was running 120bpm-128 most of the night, and some slow stuff every 20 minutes to break it up, sell drinks....clear the floor of bozos....

then i slipped Van Halen running with the devil in the mix with some dnb and Eon 'Spice', and was using
my sampler on top of it. holy **** the building started to move everyone went totally ape****. it was about 750 people going nuts. that was in the middle of my best years.

a good DJ brings surprises, and experiments live, or you are doing it wrong

just checked torq out. looks pretty good. definitely gonna have to check it out for real. thanks dude.