I had an old Bridgestone keirin bike that was mushy as pudding. The geometry was plenty "responsive,", but I'd never ridden a bike that was so unstiff. It was just worn out.

I am highly considering buying a BK. Everyone who has one should post up.

get one

i just got my bareknuckle last week, and i couldn't be happier! feels good, looks good, etc. i love it.

i know it's been talked about in all the threads about these bikes, but its important to mention the sizing. the geometry makes them very tall bikes. i usually ride a 56/57 and i can JUST stand over the 54 bareknuckle.

Thats because sizing a bike by its seat tube or standover is meaningless. How many times does this need to be stated?
People often report that the bareknuckles run large. They do not. A cm is a cm and my bareknuckle is exactly the claimed size for all the tube dimensions. It doesn't have an unusually high standover. My bareknuckle fits the same as all my other bikes, BECAUSE I BOUGHT THE CORRECT SIZE, IRRESPECTIVE OF HOW THE SEAT TUBE WAS MEASURED. The bareknuckle is sized c-c and it has a horizontal top tube. A 54 frame measured c-c is basically the same as a 56-60 measured c-t, depending on how high the seat tube extends from the frame. The 56/57s you have ridden were probably measured c-t and/or were some sort of compact geo virtual seat tube length. There's more to frame size than one number..you have to look at all the tube lengths, understand how they were measured, and the effects that the angles will have on size.

be nice

everyone spouts how stand over height does not matter but that's only true if you can still stand over it. no one wants to ride a bike that they can't even straddle

I nominate mihlbach for dutret's stunt-double. I mean that as a compliment BTW.

If you have a properly fitting bike, you should be able to stand over it, even if it is a conventional horizontal top tube frame made by Rivendell. In that respect, standover is a non-issue. However, if you can't stand over your bike comfortably, its probably either too large for you, or you are an unusually proportioned human and probably need a custom frame.

agreed, and this is exactly the argument i was just going to start with mihlback.

I would have preferred the top-tube length of the 56 bareknuckle, but i couldn't stand over it. Should I have bought a bike i couldn't stand over just because it might fit better while riding? I don't think so.

Like you said, you do need to take more into account. If you look at two bikes with the same length seattubes C-C and horizontal top tubes, but one has a higher BB and a steeper ST angle, does one bike have a higher standover? Yes. And the bareknuckle has a higher standover than most people might expect it to, for a given size.

The seattube/top tube length proportions of the BK are not much different from many modern road frames. Naturally, the standover is a little higher, due to the raised BB, but this is minor. Sounds like you would have been better going with a different frame. There are lots of frames out there (IROs, Kilo TT, many others) that tend to have longer top tubes for a given seat tube and head tube length.

you've completely neglected BB height in your analysis.
BB height part of the reason why the "size your track bike 1-2cm smaller than your road bike" rule of thumb exists.

how often do you stand over your top tube with both feet flat on the ground. standover don't mean much. i'm worried about the toptube length first then the seattube length.

What the hell does that mean? Again...stop worrying about a single number and look at the whole frame geometry. When sizing a frame, consider the geometry of frames you have ridden that fit you, or didn't fit you.
Regardless of BB height, you should still have plenty of clearance if, as I stated before, your bodily proportions are within a normal range, and your frame fits properly. If your pubic bones clear a properly fitting road frame by even a inch (typically its more than that), you'll be able to straddle the same "size" track frame without issue.


The bottom line is....never judge the fit of a frame by standover. However, if your can't straddle your frame, its a good sign that the frame is probably not for you.

every day. every time i get on or off my bike probably, any time i'm talking to one and we're not riding, anytime i stop to look at something.

people do more than just race in the drops then leap from their bikes.

Um, what? So it matters, but it doesn't matter?

3 pages. did the op get a bareknuckle or NOT?

Sizing by seattube (conventional size labeling) IS an issue for people who are buying frames over the internet and cannot test-ride them. A high BB can make a company's declared 57cm bike fit like a 59 or 60cm square bike.

mihlbach knows this. All he is saying is that sizing conventions vary widely across companies, and at best, they should be treated as rough guidelines only. Ditto with top-tube to ground measurements (standover height). Consumers should never trust these numbers, but instead look at the actual stated geometry and length of the tubes--particularly the TT length, I'd say--when deciding which given size of bike to buy.

seatube/standover sizing and BB height is also an issue and a source of confusion in cyclocross bikes. Standover actually does matter "more" in the case of 'cross, given its off-road nature. But mihlbach is correct that in road applications, you can have very snug standover heights without it being that much of an issue. I remember reading an 80s bike book that said if you could straddle the top tube while leaning the bike over, you were fine, although I think that's pushing it a bit.

I tend to not size by seat tube but size by top tube. I like a 53 top tube so I buy bikes with that. The Bareknuckle I have happens to be 50x53. I've also recently had a 52x53 road bike, and my previous track bike was a 53x53 which felt fine too. What didn't feel ok was when I bought a 54x54 roadie, forget that Rivendellesque sizing, I did not feel ok on that bike!

And FWIW, my Cannondale CAAD9 had a BB height just as high as my Bareknuckle...

a high bb does not make the bike fit like a larger bike. it just makes the head tube longer and the top tube higher...so the standover is a little higher, and not like it's multiple inches either.

size your bike by the top tube and unless you have some crazy body proportions, everything should fall into place. getting a track bike that is 2cm smaller than the appropriate sized road bike will just give you a bike with too much saddle to bar drop...that's kinda ok though, because when you further exaggerate that problem by using that jaguar stem that is too short and too deep and then putting your b123's on it, atleast some of us can make fun of you when you post pics of your bike.

What I mean is that once you are in the range of a good fit, standover shouldn't be an issue. You should fine tune the fit of a frame by considering the geometry of the whole frame.

However, if you can't straddle your frame, you are way off.

FYI..if anyone didn't know, Bareknuckle geometry can be found here.

https://www.businesscycles.com/nessuno.htm

I don't think its posted anywhere else.

...and now the REAL point comes out. If you cannot stand over your bike, you have problems, but think about the difference of a few cm's, it's like MAYBE the width of your thumb. Doesnt make a huge difference if you are +/- one frame size in sizing. Once you get that close, find a top tube that fits etc.

if a company sizes by seattube length, a higher BB can shorten the seattube for a given length of TT (thus a size mismatch, if you consider TT length to be crucial). This is definitely the case in some cross bikes.

dick length X 8.8. +/-1cm for girth.... use search.