You're absolutely right, and since I live in Astoria, I dread the thought of thousands of cars circling the neighborhood looking for parking. That's why available off-street parking would have to be part of a comprehensive traffic-reduction plan. I think Williamsburg and Brooklyn Heights might be less affected, since Long Island commuters would be more likely to come through Queens, but still, some drivers from the further reaches of Brooklyn might take the BQE to neighborhoods closer to Manhattan, park, and take the subway from there.

I haven't heard much about parking availability as part of the plan either. Seems like it would be important, and should definitely be part of the debate.

If you consider a train ride from Massapequa to NY Penn. That's one hour, $10. I imagine it takes longer in a car, and considering gas prices today, probably costs more in gas alone than the train fare. Kinda dumb to drive to Queens at that point.

I have a friend who lives in Howard Beach.. works in midtown. He just drives to the Train station, then takes public trans. Same for my friends in Jersey Burbs all live really close to the Lincoln Tunnel. They could drive and EXPENSE it but they think it's idiotic to drive into NYC during the work day. And it is.

To blame the lack of funds going towards the transit system on the this rejected bill is passing the blame. The issues with the transit system have been around long before this plan was even a concept. I've taking the train for over 10 years now and the issues now were the same back then, they're just 100 times worse. The MTA and the city have done very little to improve the system. Every take the bus in NYC? The bus is pretty much useless. Unreliable and infrequent. The city and the MTA should be relying on this bill to pass to improve the system.

Another excellent reason why that plan was flawed. The issue here is that the people who supported this plan only had one goal in mind and never considered how this would affect everyone else.

I like this guy. I agree there is a ton the city can do. Cabs double park all the time and they cause a ton of traffic.

I'm not referring to the overall number in all of NYC. I was referring to the number of cabs compared to regular cars in high congested areas during rush hour. Mainly midtown Manhattan. The cabs clearly dominate the traffic. I drive into work often and I see it for myself. There are times where I am completely surrounded by yellow cabs and that doesn't included the livery vehicles. Plus these cabs think they own the city and stop and park where ever they please causing even more traffic. Crack down on double parking of all vehicles. Hire competent traffic cops and put them at high traffic intersections. You know how many times I see traffic cops hanging out on the sidewalk and there's massive gridlock? I screamed at on the other day. It's ridiculous. So many easy steps can reduce traffic by a lot. The city just doesn't do it.

Parking in midtown Manhattan is between $10-$15 the entire day if you get the early bird special. My wife and I drive in together so considering our cost for the train round trip driving into Manhattan costs between $2-$7 more. I write that off for the convenience and the comfort of driving in. Unlike what most people think, you don't have to be rich to drive into work every day.

Now that they have been adding all these new bike lanes in NYC, does anyone know if the fine for double parking in one is higher?

Shouldn't it be? That is directly putting someone's life in danger. The entire expectation of safety of riding in a bike lane is removed when you have swerve into a lane of traffic. AND those cars driving in the traffic lane aren't paying attention because they figure there's a bike lane so they don't have to really worry about a biker in their lane.

Is it just me or is this a recipe for disaster?

Question of perspective. Is it the cabs causing congestion so that commuting drivers can't get through the traffic, or communting drivers causing congestion so the cabs can't get through?

And I still question the numbers. Even if every cab in the city was on the streets all at once (and most of them probably are), the numbers just aren't that big. Sure, at some spots (Grand Central, Penn Station, the theater district), you'll see a disproportionate number at certain hours, but as a percentage of the total number of vehicles operating in Manhattan, 20 or 30 thousand probably isn't a majority.

Holy s***! You're THAT GUY! The guy that drives to work from the outer boroughs even though you could take transit because it's cheap! I can't believe you're actually on a bike forum, I figured I'd have to go out to Little Neck and canvas.

Congestion pricing would have generated $500mil in federal funds as well as another $500mil a year in fees, all of which are directed towards transit improvement. If you don't think $1bil + $500mil a year additional would improve transit, god help you.

The issue here is that people who drive to work in manhattan only have themselves in mind and never considered how this would affect everyone else.

seriously though, you drive to work in midtown and you are complaining about traffic?

really?

rich isn't necessarily the first word that comes to mind...

From what I've read and understand, the London congestion charge did not reduce traffic. It stayed the same and people just sucked it up, paid the charges and accepted it, just like we do with the gas prices. It might make a person think twice about driving into the city but it certainly wouldn't stop them. The congestion charge does however generate money for the city. So to go to the original source of this thread, and that being the bad air quality in the city, the congetion charge wouldn't really help.

I don't know if I'm going to settle any arguments with my comments but I think this post raises some of the salient issues that differentiates the NYC issue from the London scenario.

NYC is an unique situation as it reflects some of the dissonance of competing voices and interests in our federal system because of the fact it is within one state, draws a significant number of commuters from another state, and even the municipal interests within the city can create conflicts as each borough could be seen as a de facto city in and of itself with idiosyncratic interests. When such diverse, and often conflicting, interests exist then the status quo tends to win out.

With London it is different because the governmental power is more centralized in the UK, London is also the capital of England and seat of parliament in the UK. It would be as if NYC was Albany, DC, and was not neighbored by a different state. I also don't see CCTV going over very well in an American city. For good or bad, consolidation of power makes it easy to push through a given agenda since there are less needs to find compromises.

And as a total tangent, while the points raised concerning the MTA are likely legitimite I have one word/acronym for you: SEPTA

heh, amen.

Thanks for correcting me. I think they charge drivers depending on the emissions of their vehicle, so that could help the air quality. Correct me if I'm wrong again

Me: Permission to Muntz him captain?

Sasha: Sure, our bandwidth is fine

What the hell are you thinking? You live in the most dense / easily accessible / best public transportation facilitated city in the US and you DRIVE IN**********!?!?!?1?

AND YOU'RE ON A BIKE FORUM!????!?!

You probably voted for Bush too and will vote for McCain.

please, please stop doing this

and, yes, i live in manhattan

I'm not sure what politics have to do with this but no, I'm not a republican. And if you think the NYC transit system is the best then you either have very low standards or haven't experienced it long enough. It really isn't all that great or reliable. It's actually pathetic.

I also have no idea what me driving into work has anything to do with me posting on a bike forum. People who like to cycle also own cars. I know it's hard to believe but it's true.

I wish I didn't have to drive into work most of the time but driving is more convenient, more reliable, quicker and more accessible for me. It's simply a better option.

Easy for you to say when you live in Manhattan. If I lived a couple of blocks from a subway station, I would definitely stop driving it. But I don't so for me driving makes more sense.

Anyway, from the responses in this thread, doesn't seem like this discussion will remain intelligent or even mature. People just need to understand that everyone is in a different situation. What works for someone, doesn't necessarily work for someone else. Doesn't seem like many people here want to keep their minds open to something like that. I try to drive as little as possible but sometimes it's unavoidable.

Unavoidable, as in every workday? You're not even trying. Sorry, but your last sentence is just laughable.