Maybe you should look into the Kilo & dump the Litespeed conversion.

i was going to, but then i got a sick vintage eddy mercx track frame and converted it with some sperm deep vees

another frame you might consider is the motobecane messenger. has anyone ever ridden one of these? i heard they have very steep geo

You need a hug.

you need to believe something, anything, about bicycles that makes an ounce of sense

ps i just hugged my roommate, so i got that covered for you

i ****ing wish i owned a litespeed, man

Not covered for me, I'm not gay, I'm married, sorry dude. I appreciate the compliment, tho.

what? haha so youre a homophobe too that doesnt allow straight people to hug their own sex, even after you tell me to get a hug? hahaha **** you, **** you so so much

(holds head in disbelief)

Now you're just playing yourself. Go to bed, get a soda or something.

now youre just not making sense!!! youre not my dad you cant tell me what to do!!!

Back on topic, the only reason anyone is commenting on the choice of the Sparton frame is because you have stated that you wanted tighter and steeper geometry, and even went so far as to mention a San Rensho frame as an option. The Sparton frame does not have steep angles, and does not have particularly tight clearances, even though I'm not sure of the reason for wanting tight clearances. The Sparton frame also does not have a tubeset or quality of construction that would make it even remotely comparable to a San Rensho.

Excuse us if we're trying to ask what you really want so you might end up with a frame you like, but you asked a question and people have been answering.

I'll re-state what I asked before, you said you wanted something steeper and tighter than your Hour, but without brake holes, and with lugs, correct? Your Hour has a HT angle of 75 degrees and a ST angle of 73.5 degrees. Comparing that to a steeper bike, for example the Felt TK2 (75/75 is about as steep as it gets within practical boundaries, the TK2 is 75/74), the only difference in the angles is a .5 degree steeper seat tube. The Sparton frame has much slacker angles than your current bike, and will ride as such. You are also ignoring the tubeset and other elements of the frame in ride quality. You can have a bike with 80/80 angles, and if it's constructed from hi-ten steel it'll still ride like a wet noodle if you're a strong rider. I have ridden my Steamroller frame (4130 steel) on a track, and I have felt the BB flex, and I only weigh around 130 lbs. The previously mentioned Felt would not have this ride quality due to its construction.

In short, don't jump on the Sparton frame, re-evaluate what you want ride quality and performance wise, and then see what frames would match that. Brake holes or no brake holes won't matter to you 60 miles into a ride, but the stiffness of the frame, geometry, attention to over all construction, and other details will. You mention being interested in details such as the intricate paint on hand made Japanese frames, but are not interested in the details of what tubeset was used and how that will affect other variables?

bigbris, please answer rudetay's post. the anticipation is killing me.

Oh it just keeps getting better. ten bucks says bigbris completely ignores rudetay's post.

To tag onto this advice, I am getting a Sparton and it should be here within the next week or two. You could always wait then for photos and a ride report, then you would have a little more information from someone who owns one. It's just a thought.

this thread isn't even funnie anymore.

3rensho and Sparton in the same conversation?
I think those Swiss scientists ****ed up the Earth.

I really appreciate this post, thank you. It's well stated, objective & speaks to the questions raised.

I wasn't trying to compare the 2 bikes or respective companies, just that I had narrowed my choices down to those 2 (barring any freak appearance of a track frame on eBay). My thinking was, if I got the 3Rensho frame & built it up properly, this would be a bike I could keep for the rest of my life, that just might appreciate in value. I know who the A-class Keirin rider is, when the frame was made, etc. If I took that frame to a frame builder/restorer to have the TT replaced, they most certainly would not turn me away & tell me just to get another frame.

On the other hand, who knows if Sparton frames are on the come-up? There just might be a secret gem lying in that frame, I haven't heard any recent first-hand experience to dispute this fact. Even the frame I inspected at KK was from one of the earlier batches of over a year ago. So $279 shipped is not that much of an expense to find out, plus I know I can recoup if the need arises. Did you know that you can request the geo that you want from Sparton frames for just a few bucks more? Another bonus in my book.

For the price of a lot of NJS frames you'd have to really love the frame though, a TT replacement would be around $300 from most builders, and then you'd have to factor in re-finishing. Totally worth it for some frames, but others, not so much.


I don't think first hand experience is really what's needed to dispute a Sparton frame being desirable at some point. The fact is that it's a cheap bike with cheap steel, and nothing especially notable design or execution wise about it. It's much closer to an old lugged fuji conversion frame than it is to a frame made for the track. These frames have nothing that particularly sets them apart from your current Hour frame, a Kilo TT, a Pista frame, or any other cheap steel frame with track ends, in fact it has a worse tubeset than some of the ones I just mentioned. This isn't a Bridgestone RB-1 or anything. "Gem" bikes are nice bikes to begin with, and they might fall out of favor or out of production causing the price to drop or something, but they were still nice bikes along the whole lifetime of the frame.

The geometry thing is cool though. I just don't think this frame is really much different than the one you already own, in fact it seems like the bikes direct bikes have more thought put into the design and geometry (even if it is just copying popular frames) than Sparton. That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy it, you can do whatever you want. But, if you decide to go the cheaper frame route, I would advise you to consider some of the other dozens of options that would work (given, there are not dozens without brake holes and with super tight clearances, but those factors have almost no performance influence, and should be considered as such).

Not really worried too much about performance, if the bike rides, it rides. What I am concerned about, however, is owning a bike that makes me want to get out of bed & ride to work, a bike that makes me want to go out at 2AM just because. Asthetics can do that.

I'm at the point where I can just jump in my truck & go anywhere, make me want to ride.

Truck? Huh?

someone kill the god damned thread

PLEASE

why does bigbris even open threads? everything he says just serves his self-satisfying attitude. "Not really worried too much about performance"? This whole thing is laughable.

Someone sell this man a $400 House of Kolor paintjob for his windsor, that is really the only thing he truly wants. Bigbris, you can get rainbowflake, metalic, glow in the dark, khameleon color (changes color based upon viewing angle) kandy paint job for less than you would pay for that 3rensho.