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Keirin Bikes

Old 10-05-08, 05:41 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
'cept for that whole issue with Vivalo forks breaking...
That's why they are no longer NJS.
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Old 10-06-08, 01:32 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Brvn View Post
Bridgestones are NOT on the cheaper end unless they have dents all over them. From the knowledge Iv gathered, dented frames arnt worth bothering with. Panasonics are definitely on the cheapest side of things. Death_hare on these forums and alex japon on ebay have the best deals on new panasonics. As far as used frames go, the cheapest ones are the lesser known ones. Things like bomber pros that nobody seems to want. Eimei and RAP are also pretty cheap. NJS export has some really cheap zunows that are not NJS that dont look too bad.
Reread my post. I said cheaper as in lower price, not cheaper as in lower quality. Bridgestones are almost always some of the most reasonably priced NJS frames but the quality is very high.
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Old 10-06-08, 01:42 PM
  #28  
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^ for sure. Bridgestones are great and def on the cheaper (price) end of NJS frames. Didn't bridgestone just buy a bunch of NJS frames and re-badge them as their own?
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Old 10-06-08, 01:56 PM
  #29  
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Please do not buy NJS for a daily rider. Keep the Soma as a daily rider and use the NJS bike as your weekend mobile... Trust me.
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Old 10-06-08, 02:09 PM
  #30  
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^ that's also true.
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Old 10-06-08, 02:35 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by triplesixer View Post
^ for sure. Bridgestones are great and def on the cheaper (price) end of NJS frames. Didn't bridgestone just buy a bunch of NJS frames and re-badge them as their own?
Haven't heard that at all.

Bridgestone has a decent history of making very nice frames though. There is a cult following of vintage bike enthusiasts who are willing to pay 2 or 3x more for an 80's/early 90's Bridgestone road bike like RB-1/RB-2 vs. similarly equipped but lesser valued brands of the same era.
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Old 10-06-08, 02:39 PM
  #32  
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Yeah I'm not sure where I heard it but I heard they were rebadged, similar to Rap bikes.
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Old 10-06-08, 03:48 PM
  #33  
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I ride a Pinarello Montello-- it is perfect for fixed and ss riding on the street--
Kerin bikes are straight track geometry--- toe slap--- eye candy for thieves--
delicate tubes for the ghetto--- If I could afford an old style lugged track--- I would
try KHS. ( though I am out of whiskey, and I know that khs has nothing lugged--
i knew that.....)

Last edited by G piny parnas; 10-06-08 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 10-06-08, 05:13 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Brvn View Post
NJS frame: Kasei, Tange, or higher end columbus tubing
Alien: Double-butted Cro-Mo steel
aliens are also a quarter of the price of a brand new NJS frame, and TBH, i'd rather have a decent generic double-butted cro-mo on a street ride than something lightweight. it's not going to make that muchof a difference.

NJS frame: Hand built by skilled workers who enjoy building bikes.
Alien: ??? factory workers, most likely working to feed their children, not to make a bike you love.
um, either way, it takes a decnet amount of skill to braze a lugged frame, no matter which asian country you're from. and who says the guy brazing frames in the taiwanese factory enjoys his job any less than the guy in the japanese factory? very few frame concerns in japan are one-man shops, and in the case of bridgestone, i'm pretty sure they have just as many workers on the floor as maxway. these are still mass-produced frames in both cases.

NJS frame: Hatta headsets, sugino/hatta/shimano/ BBs
Alien: From what I gather either none or cheap ones can be installed.
moot point. you can just as easily get a NJS HS/BB combo for an alien if you want. hell, the fork crown on aliens is JIS anyway.

NJS frame: Much larger variance in fitting options, differnt seat stays, differnt fork crowns.
Alien frame: Seat tube size changes in increments of 2cms
not unless you go custom. most keirin builders won't even let you choose the type of tubing.

NJS frame: Can be resold for nearly the same price you paid for it if you dont thrash it.
Alien frame: Probably pretty worthless if you dont want it anymore.
i'm sure the resale value on an alien would be pretty decent, NJS frames are overpriced anyway.

NJS frames: Scrutinized by a panel of judges on quality, historical significance, years of experience already built up behind all of the brands.
Alien frame: Brand new start up, albeit made in a factory that makes lots of other frames that have been around for awhile if I recall.
IIRC, the factory that makes aliens (and kazane frames for that matter, and possibly the lugged somas) is owned by maxway, one of the largest producers of bikes in the world, period. if you think the quality control isn't just as strong as any other factory anywhere else, well that's just dumb.

I dont want to get into an arguement or anything...
not trying to argue, but each of your points was pretty well unfounded.

disclaimer: i own an alien, and i'm pretty f**king impressed and happy with it.
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Old 10-06-08, 05:31 PM
  #35  
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i WANT a colnago master lugged steel track bike-- leave me now...............................
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Old 10-06-08, 05:37 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by jitensha! View Post
*truth.
I was just too lazy.
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Old 10-06-08, 09:04 PM
  #37  
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bfssfg, where 5 apples are no more valuable than 1 apple.
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Old 10-07-08, 02:12 AM
  #38  
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Thanks jitensha for doing what I was too lazy to do myself... all good points. I've ridden nice NJS frames on the street and I'd rather have slightly burlier tubing for a daily rider, I think most other people would want the same if they ride hard... and a lot of keirin bikes are DB 4130 /, Kaisei 019/022 (lower to middle range tubes) as well ,not the really high end stuff like Genius, 753, 853 and 8630.
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Old 10-07-08, 02:21 AM
  #39  
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Ebay up an old frame?
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Old 10-07-08, 07:57 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by triplesixer View Post
Yeah I'm not sure where I heard it but I heard they were rebadged, similar to Rap bikes.
RAP is built by Nemoto-san at Cycleland -- that's his house brand. I'm not sure what "rebadged" refers to.
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Old 10-07-08, 11:34 AM
  #41  
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In Gabe's blogshop there's a Bridgestone frame for sale which has been re-painted by RAP and it has their new decals on it. That's probably where 'teh interwebs rumour' comes from. Or from some equally bizarre anecdote.
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Old 10-10-08, 07:13 AM
  #42  
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The reason Bridgestones have a cult following is due to the years that Grant Peterson was associated with them. Bridgestones are all very nicely made, but the NJS bikes are a different deal that his road, cross, and mtn bikes.

All of the NJS builders build their own bikes in-house. The only major rebranding (more like contract building) in the premium Japanese framebuilding world that I know of is for randonneur/touring bikes that makers like Toei build for other nameplates. Great bikes though. Anyone know who makes the Rivendell frames for Grant now? B-stone?

For jitensha's points above...it really depends on the used market. Prices now probably stink, but you used to be able to get a beautiful NJS bike with a near new condition BB and headset for cheap. I got a pristine 58cm Bridgestone with Genius tubing for $500ish. That was late spring 07 in Japan.

As for BBs and hubs, I've loved me some loose balls and never had any problems. That said, I wasn't in a suuuuper nasty place. I'd still recommend against getting a pretty NJS bike as a winter daily rider at inflated prices.....recipe for sadness/destruction. And don't you want fenders?
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Old 10-10-08, 07:37 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by andre nickatina View Post
I've ridden nice NJS frames on the street and I'd rather have slightly burlier tubing for a daily rider, I think most other people would want the same if they ride hard...
this is a good. listen to this.
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Old 10-10-08, 08:28 AM
  #44  
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Ride whatever makes you happy.
Whatever makes you wanna get out and ride it everyday and look forward to getting on it.
Whether it be a gas pipe conversion or a big money track frame.
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Old 10-10-08, 08:52 AM
  #45  
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Loose ball hubs are just like anything else that isn't explicitly idiot-proofed: meaning that if you do your homework and a little bit of extra maintenance, you don't suffer any drawbacks at all and get all the positives.

For what it's worth on the street, (well maintained) loose ball bottom brackets have less bearing drag and therefore spin easier than sealed bearing bottom brackets. Even hardcore trackies, though, realize that if they're worried about bearing drag, they're probably so fast at this point, they can have someone build a custom bottom bracket just for them.

With regards to the paint jobs of NJS bikes, they are definitely not winter-worthy. The paint is generally painfully thin, as nice as it may look. (I echo the opinion of some others in that I prefer the more understated look of single-color paint and small builder decals.)

For winter, it would probably be better to have something with fenders, clearance for wider tires, and a heavy powdercoat finish.
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Old 10-10-08, 12:34 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by nateintokyo View Post
And don't you want fenders?
Raceblades!
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