Keirin Bikes
10-06-08, 01:32 PM
#27
not actually Nickatina
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Bridgestones are NOT on the cheaper end unless they have dents all over them. From the knowledge Iv gathered, dented frames arnt worth bothering with. Panasonics are definitely on the cheapest side of things. Death_hare on these forums and alex japon on ebay have the best deals on new panasonics. As far as used frames go, the cheapest ones are the lesser known ones. Things like bomber pros that nobody seems to want. Eimei and RAP are also pretty cheap. NJS export has some really cheap zunows that are not NJS that dont look too bad.
10-06-08, 01:42 PM
#28
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^ for sure. Bridgestones are great and def on the cheaper (price) end of NJS frames. Didn't bridgestone just buy a bunch of NJS frames and re-badge them as their own?
10-06-08, 02:09 PM
#30
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^ that's also true.
10-06-08, 02:35 PM
#31
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Bridgestone has a decent history of making very nice frames though. There is a cult following of vintage bike enthusiasts who are willing to pay 2 or 3x more for an 80's/early 90's Bridgestone road bike like RB-1/RB-2 vs. similarly equipped but lesser valued brands of the same era.
10-06-08, 02:39 PM
#32
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Yeah I'm not sure where I heard it but I heard they were rebadged, similar to Rap bikes.
10-06-08, 03:48 PM
#33
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I ride a Pinarello Montello-- it is perfect for fixed and ss riding on the street--
Kerin bikes are straight track geometry--- toe slap--- eye candy for thieves--
delicate tubes for the ghetto--- If I could afford an old style lugged track--- I would
try KHS. ( though I am out of whiskey, and I know that khs has nothing lugged--
i knew that.....)
Kerin bikes are straight track geometry--- toe slap--- eye candy for thieves--
delicate tubes for the ghetto--- If I could afford an old style lugged track--- I would
try KHS. ( though I am out of whiskey, and I know that khs has nothing lugged--
i knew that.....)
Last edited by G piny parnas; 10-06-08 at 04:13 PM.
10-06-08, 05:13 PM
#34
ready for the freakout
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NJS frame: Hand built by skilled workers who enjoy building bikes.
Alien: ??? factory workers, most likely working to feed their children, not to make a bike you love.
Alien: ??? factory workers, most likely working to feed their children, not to make a bike you love.
NJS frame: Hatta headsets, sugino/hatta/shimano/ BBs
Alien: From what I gather either none or cheap ones can be installed.
Alien: From what I gather either none or cheap ones can be installed.
NJS frame: Much larger variance in fitting options, differnt seat stays, differnt fork crowns.
Alien frame: Seat tube size changes in increments of 2cms
Alien frame: Seat tube size changes in increments of 2cms
NJS frame: Can be resold for nearly the same price you paid for it if you dont thrash it.
Alien frame: Probably pretty worthless if you dont want it anymore.
Alien frame: Probably pretty worthless if you dont want it anymore.
NJS frames: Scrutinized by a panel of judges on quality, historical significance, years of experience already built up behind all of the brands.
Alien frame: Brand new start up, albeit made in a factory that makes lots of other frames that have been around for awhile if I recall.
Alien frame: Brand new start up, albeit made in a factory that makes lots of other frames that have been around for awhile if I recall.
I dont want to get into an arguement or anything...
disclaimer: i own an alien, and i'm pretty f**king impressed and happy with it.
10-07-08, 02:12 AM
#38
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Thanks jitensha for doing what I was too lazy to do myself... all good points. I've ridden nice NJS frames on the street and I'd rather have slightly burlier tubing for a daily rider, I think most other people would want the same if they ride hard... and a lot of keirin bikes are DB 4130 /, Kaisei 019/022 (lower to middle range tubes) as well ,not the really high end stuff like Genius, 753, 853 and 8630.
10-07-08, 07:57 AM
#40
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__________________
3RENSHO SRA | CO-MOTION CROSS | SAMSON | KALAVINKA | DE ROSA | DE ROSA PRO | CANNONDALE SIX13 | CO-MOTION NOR'WESTER
many many bikey photos
3RENSHO SRA | CO-MOTION CROSS | SAMSON | KALAVINKA | DE ROSA | DE ROSA PRO | CANNONDALE SIX13 | CO-MOTION NOR'WESTER
many many bikey photos
10-07-08, 11:34 AM
#41
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In Gabe's blogshop there's a Bridgestone frame for sale which has been re-painted by RAP and it has their new decals on it. That's probably where 'teh interwebs rumour' comes from. Or from some equally bizarre anecdote.
10-10-08, 07:13 AM
#42
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The reason Bridgestones have a cult following is due to the years that Grant Peterson was associated with them. Bridgestones are all very nicely made, but the NJS bikes are a different deal that his road, cross, and mtn bikes.
All of the NJS builders build their own bikes in-house. The only major rebranding (more like contract building) in the premium Japanese framebuilding world that I know of is for randonneur/touring bikes that makers like Toei build for other nameplates. Great bikes though. Anyone know who makes the Rivendell frames for Grant now? B-stone?
For jitensha's points above...it really depends on the used market. Prices now probably stink, but you used to be able to get a beautiful NJS bike with a near new condition BB and headset for cheap. I got a pristine 58cm Bridgestone with Genius tubing for $500ish. That was late spring 07 in Japan.
As for BBs and hubs, I've loved me some loose balls and never had any problems. That said, I wasn't in a suuuuper nasty place. I'd still recommend against getting a pretty NJS bike as a winter daily rider at inflated prices.....recipe for sadness/destruction. And don't you want fenders?
All of the NJS builders build their own bikes in-house. The only major rebranding (more like contract building) in the premium Japanese framebuilding world that I know of is for randonneur/touring bikes that makers like Toei build for other nameplates. Great bikes though. Anyone know who makes the Rivendell frames for Grant now? B-stone?
For jitensha's points above...it really depends on the used market. Prices now probably stink, but you used to be able to get a beautiful NJS bike with a near new condition BB and headset for cheap. I got a pristine 58cm Bridgestone with Genius tubing for $500ish. That was late spring 07 in Japan.
As for BBs and hubs, I've loved me some loose balls and never had any problems. That said, I wasn't in a suuuuper nasty place. I'd still recommend against getting a pretty NJS bike as a winter daily rider at inflated prices.....recipe for sadness/destruction. And don't you want fenders?
10-10-08, 07:37 AM
#43
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10-10-08, 08:28 AM
#44
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Ride whatever makes you happy.
Whatever makes you wanna get out and ride it everyday and look forward to getting on it.
Whether it be a gas pipe conversion or a big money track frame.
Whatever makes you wanna get out and ride it everyday and look forward to getting on it.
Whether it be a gas pipe conversion or a big money track frame.
10-10-08, 08:52 AM
#45
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Loose ball hubs are just like anything else that isn't explicitly idiot-proofed: meaning that if you do your homework and a little bit of extra maintenance, you don't suffer any drawbacks at all and get all the positives.
For what it's worth on the street, (well maintained) loose ball bottom brackets have less bearing drag and therefore spin easier than sealed bearing bottom brackets. Even hardcore trackies, though, realize that if they're worried about bearing drag, they're probably so fast at this point, they can have someone build a custom bottom bracket just for them.
With regards to the paint jobs of NJS bikes, they are definitely not winter-worthy. The paint is generally painfully thin, as nice as it may look. (I echo the opinion of some others in that I prefer the more understated look of single-color paint and small builder decals.)
For winter, it would probably be better to have something with fenders, clearance for wider tires, and a heavy powdercoat finish.
For what it's worth on the street, (well maintained) loose ball bottom brackets have less bearing drag and therefore spin easier than sealed bearing bottom brackets. Even hardcore trackies, though, realize that if they're worried about bearing drag, they're probably so fast at this point, they can have someone build a custom bottom bracket just for them.
With regards to the paint jobs of NJS bikes, they are definitely not winter-worthy. The paint is generally painfully thin, as nice as it may look. (I echo the opinion of some others in that I prefer the more understated look of single-color paint and small builder decals.)
For winter, it would probably be better to have something with fenders, clearance for wider tires, and a heavy powdercoat finish.
