..

they have geometry charts on there.

If you're shorter, you'll have toe overlap on almost any track frame.

He doesn't know how to decipher the geometry charts, neither do I.

Yet, I vaugly remember reading here that the Messenger has the most relaxed geometry of them all. Take that with a grain of salt until a more knowledgeable person posts.

why do people have this natural aversion to toe overlap?

what kind of riding will you be doing where this would be a problem? riding in circles?

riding incredibly slow, probably. I think i've only ever had a problem with toe overlap while actually riding once, and that was making a turn from a dead stop

My Dawes SST make a pretty good commuter. It is pretty laid back, and I've never had any overlap problems. It's a tank, but I knew that going into it. If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy the same bike. Only complaint I have about it are the brake pads; though, that's an easy fix.

edit.

bikes direct start their own threads with fake ids to drum up interest. its a real issue on the road forum, i'm sure it happens here, too.

This dude started a BD thread that went on for 15 pages in the road forum just two weeks ago.

However, one must have is: no toe overlap.

if you're interested in the bikesdirect shill postings go here: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...esdirect+shill

IMO, only the fixed gears are worth the money, anything else i'll get at my LBS

i ride an IRO Mark V that's a size 53, so it isn't really relevant to the BD bikes.

I'm GASing for an IRO Angus build right now.

the kilo has more toe overlap than the hour, which still had some. i'll bet the fantom cross uno has the least overlap.

my moto messenger has no toe overlap with the 52cm frame.

Buying a bike based on toe overlap...

In my opinion, the only bike listed up there with potential toe-overlap are the Kilos. I have a Windsor Hour in 52cm, and I have NO toe-overlap.

you COULD change the fork out for one with a higher rake...

I just picked up the Dawes SST this week. The geometry is very nice for long distances. Also, if there is toe overlap, it has not been a problem for me at all.

toe overlap also depends on the size of your foot, the size of your clips, and the size of your front tire. asking people if there is overlap on a frame is a waste of time because more often than not it's entirely subjective.

https://davesbikeblog.squarespace.com...o-problem.html

What street? I call BS on riding 1 mile next to someone on a sidewalk in NYC pedestrian traffic. And even if you DO do it, that's jackass for riding on a sidewalk in the first place.

Also, search is easy:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ct+geo+relaxed

yah, not good to ride on the sidewalks. sucks to be hanging out with someone who's walking, but when that happens i think the only option is to walk your bike

i ride a 52 sst, i've never had a problem with overlap.