All it boils down to is making educated decisions. I personally think it's a horrible decision to take it upon yourself to saw off a lock and take a bike. You're also assuming that the owner is no longer present. How do you know? Because they haven't been around? Maybe they're out of town, maybe they're in a hospital, family emergency, business, trip, just forgot about the blood thing, etc...

It's a lot easier to walk away than to assume tons of variables that you have no definitive proof to make an educated decision. Walk away and save yourself the hassle of being just another thief.

Kind of twisted logic there... but wouldn't it be better if the third person didn't charge it at all and had some decency?

Yeah it would've been, but that's not the world we live in. I know this situation doesn't correlate entirely to the topic at hand, but there are parallels that apply i think.

ethics is not about toeing the line and getting away with stuff.

it's not about what's expected either.

blaming yourself for losing your debit card is fine. blaming yourself for the person charging stuff to your account is stupid.

it's about weighing one person's desires and quality of life against another's... and stealing a bike so the government doesn't take it is NOT ethical.

Wow, what a way to justify being a prick. It's akin to saying 'she was dressed all sexy like and was just asking to be *****'. Go get 'em, slugger. :rolleyes:

You mean like the police?

This.

I knew a guy who had some... stong opinions and questionable philosophies. He was always the kind of guy you could call on for some random favor, because he was a pack rat and had EVERYTHING. One day he found himself a set of 4' bolt cutters.

He started cutting locks for friends when they lost their keys drunk.

Then he started freeing up crusty old BMXs in crappy neighborhoods. Only after he had watched them for a few months, and then he'd give them to a local childrens charitable center.

Then he started cruising the campuses, cause I mean those kid's don't even care about their ****. I mean look at how much they throw out on move out day? Where do you think I got these sneakers? I only unchain them when I know schools out for the year, and they haven't moved all semester.

Then I was out for a ride with him on a popular MUP, and at the crest of a trail was a beautifully set up 90's MTB locked to a fence. Man, I'm gonna come back here and check that bike out tomorrow night. If it's still here, that person has more money than common sense, and they don't deserve a bike that sweet.

The last time I saw him, I was at his house and he had carbon frames laying around everywhere.



It's a slippery slope, man. Like K2 covered in KY.

a friend and i were walking around in soho over the weekend and i'm pretty sure i saw the same bike you are talking about complete with hacksaw cuts to the u lock. we both remarked at what a shame it was that it was stripped to that point how nice it would be to have that frame and then commented on how happy we both bought the same lock used to lock the bike up and kept walking. honestly i'm not sure if i would take the frame or not if presented with the opportunity. i like to think i wouldn't but a small part of me thinks i would.

i have to admit that i definately have the same thought regarding stripped bikes around the city. it seems like people come back to their bikes, see all the missing parts and just leave it there. i have at least one friend who locked up his bike outside a bar, got hammered in the bar and went home without his bike and didn't have any idea where it was until a friend noticed it a month later.

I have been lurking on this forum for quite sometime and just now registered so I can post to this thread.

The way I see it is this: Its wrong to take what is not yours. Pretty simple idea.

The bike may have fallen on hard times, you may put it to good use, the owner may not care about it, heck, taking this bike may cure the worlds hunger problem, but the bottom line is that it isn't yours and you have no ownership of it, therefore taking it is not only ethically wrong but illegal. Justify it anyway you want, but it doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't make it legal.

My wife is a criminal attorney, has been a public defender for a few years and a prosecutor for a few years, and I can tell you one thing is true, 95% of the accused/guilty can justify their crimes just fine, in fact, in their eyes it is usually someone else's fault (in this case, you are saying "its the owner's fault for leaving a bike in this condition, therefore its okay for me to steal it." Its faulty logic, period).

Someone justified stealing to feed their hungry kids, this is still just faulty logic. If you need to steal to put food on the table of your kids, you need to make better decisions in life so you are a better provider. Its your fault you don't have the means to feed your kids, not the owner of the supermarket where you shoplifted the can of baked beans. If you fall on hard times, there are organizations, churches and community groups full of good people that will help you out, reach out to them before you commit a crime. Hardship isn't an excuse for commiting a crime.

The answer is to stop being stingy and cough up the $700 to buy your girlfriend her own Pista instead of stealing it from someone.

EDIT: Seriously though, who wants to give someone a stolen bike, whether they stole it or not? Especially to his girlfriend? Especially when HE stole it?

yes steal her the pista for her first bike. And maybe when you propose, you can take that hacksaw to some girl's ringfinger and get yourself a free engagement ring, too.

This pisses me off so much. You obviously know about hard times.

While I don't agree that stealing cannot sometimes be the lesser of two evils ... I do think that in America it is a rare case indeed that stealing is not more difficult than other means of obtaining something like food. With a little work, someone who is destitute can obtain food stamps, visit soup kitchens, get handouts, or dumpster dive. You can do any of these things to feed yourself and others and not have to steal a thing.

In a poor village in Malawi or something I could see stealing food to stay alive. But anywhere in America, I call BS.

It is not stealing if its been abandoned lol. This thread is out of control.

Yeah because people just abandon Pistas in NYC. Already several scenarios have been posted that could explain why the bike was there so long.

If it's not yours leave it alone. Save up your money and buy your own ****.

Maybe a bit harsh, but I understand the sentiment.

My issue is with the "justified" part. Stealing is never justified, even to feed your kids. You might understand or empathize with the act, but that doesn't justify it.

Stealing a bike? Both empathy and understanding fail me on that one. Buy your own damn bike.

http://www.easttnriders.com/forum/im...milies/046.gif


oh, and....

http://www.easttnriders.com/forum/im...s/iroc-cop.gif

You certainly don't know my past,. "Hard times" just isn't a justification for commiting a crime. If you actually read what I wrote you would see that I gave several other ways in which a person can get help if they fall on hard times, I would certainly choose to follow one or several of them before I decided to take something which wasn't mine.

Since this thread is already semi-off-topic, if you had to choose between prostitution, theft, begging, and death, which would you go with?

^^^

How is lusting after a fancy bike 'hard times'?

If you had to choose between punching a hundred innocent babies in the face, and death, which would you go with?