First, I'll say I have found one nice LBS in town, with a very approachable, honest owner. I have bought three bikes in two years from him, and I was happy until those bikes got stolen. In search of something new, I wanted to see some brands he didn't carry, so I hit three other stores this weekend.

Store one had the Madison for sale price of 599. Not good, not shocking, until the sales guy tried to convince me what a great deal that was, because the 'regular price' was 699. MSRP online is 629.

Store two had no price tags. But the sales guy told me the Pistas start at 950 or something, the Beatnik 850, and Sputnik was 1100. All stock, as far as I could tell, and well above list.

The third had a Beatnik for 499. I was ready to pull the trigger until I asked if it shouldn't come with brakes. The owner (at least he said he did all the ordering) said he'd give me a brake for 20 bucks. Shouldn't Jamis be sending him brakes in the box? What happened to the stock ones?

None of these stores are urban/fixie shops, so maybe I get what I deserve. But I was really trying to avoid buying something online, and support the locals. If I go back to the guy I bought from before, it's the Origin8 (no thanks) or a $200 '80s Fuji roadie that is too nice to convert.

Where are all the 2009 closeout deals?

Get the cheapest thing you can and spend the rest on locks.

There are two shops in my town. One is great. 3 employees, 2 of which have been working there for almost 30 years and the 3rd is a certified race mechanic who also builds frames.

The other shop is staffed by college students with no idea what they are talking about. I once went in there to ask if they had any mountain bike clipless shoes and the dude proceeded to show me the clipless pedals. a friend went in there to buy new pedals and have them put on and the dude putting them on couldn't figure out why the pedal(one designed for 1 piece cranks) wouldn't thread in.

Needless to say i avoid one of them.

Yeah, if I invest in a Ulock again it'll be solely for beating people. The last one didn't save my bike, and I have its twisted corpse to show for it.

In the end, I'm half tempted to see a poll here showing whether people's first instinct is to go online or buy locally when they get a new bike. I don't want to mess up my carbon footprint karma by having something shipped from California or wherever.

I'm half tempted to

Look, the fact is that you need a bike. Carbon footprint will be amazingly reduced by using one, so ease your worries on that front. If the local bike shop doesn't fit your needs and you have no desire to build a relationship with one/do all your own wrenching, just buy online. You both know the internet exists, so it's fair game. Even if you take it to them for all your repairs you're still giving them business anyways, so they can't say boo about it. It's a bike, not a moral question and you're putting too much thought into this. And for gods sake, get a SMALL u-lock next time so they can't fit a car jack in there. Plus, I believe Kryptonite has some sort of insurance against thievery, IIRC.

I've venture a guess and say that Cycle Path is the good shop. They were awesome when I was at Ohio U. back in the early 90s.
What's the other one?

My LBS suck donkey balls two. I have 4 close to me. One is more of a mountain bike BMX but they do have some vintage bikes forsale out front. Went in and didn't see anything of interest. The other is by the main MUP around the lake and has been around for awhile. THey mainly sell road bikes with some others thrown in. They had an 07 rush hour that they still wanted full price for a few months ago.

One seemed pretty good with a nice wide selection. They had tools and everything too so I was liking this one. The last one is near downtown and actually has some fixies/ss. (Langsters and curbsides though) but they do have Jamis. Of course no sputniks or even aurora's in stock.

So I was trying to get a singlespeed 18t freewheel cog to replace my 16t. The 16t is too tall for my commute. I rode into the one by downtown it is closest to my work and home. Ask if they have any 18t ss free cogs. He checks and says no but we'll order one. Have it in a few days and we'll call you. A week goes by and nothing. I call at end of that week and they say it didn't come we'll order it again. Give us two-three days and we'll call you. Nothing no call for another week or so. So I call back, girl answers with no idea what cog is, asks dude by her, and says she'll look for it and call back. No call and its been a week.

So I call the other place I like that is a little further away sure they would help. Girl answers and again has no clue what I was talking about. Shop mechanic was at lunch and she would have him call me back. No call in a week.

So I ordered the cog and the cog remover tool along with lube and oil and the stuff I need for basick maintenance. My LBS's basically have no clue nor do they care. So I'll only go there out of sheer necessity.

I'm also a golfer who got really into to golf equipment in the last 5 or so years. I can now build a matched set of custom clubs using MOI and frequency techniques as good clubbuilder should. The more I learn about golf and clubmaking the more I learn that the local golf shops have no clue.

Try walking into Golf Galaxy and asking if the the builder will MOI match your irons to your favorite 7-iron. They'd look at you like you were speaking latin. Or spout off some bs about how they custom fit yada yada. In my entire state I bet there is maybe one or two professional clubmakers and fitters that actually know what they are doing and stay up on new advancements in the art. Most would rather sell you a set of Pings straight off the rack assembled by chinese kids in a factory with no weight matching of components what so ever. Also made for a standard length that fits only a certain % of people. And proclaim that a custom made component club forged in the same factory hand assembled to exacting specs to fit that golfer is inferior in some manner because it isn't advertized between Tiger Woods shots.

The more I learn about bikes, I'm realizing this fact isn't only a problem with the golf industry. Sorry if I went on a tangent here but I think in essence it relates to your thread.

Here's a big tl;dr, basically I found a mechanic at a big shop who was actually helpful and fair and didnt price gouge me and wow really just mind blown. Wanted to say thanks.

---tl;dr begins now

Had a pretty good experience at the big nationwide chain bike shop a few days ago. They were having a decent sale and I was cleaning up one of my old rigid MTBs (Trek 820, loved that bike) to give to my little brother as a birthday present, so I was in there buying a few tires and knick knacks.

Picked up a Vittoria cross tire to throw on my steel geared bike and long story short the ***** was just too small (700C on a 700C wheel, but Vittoria's dont seem to stretch great anyway and this was a 20+ year old made-in-italy rim... they didn't play nice). I got it on with a tube but literally had to use a mini-crowbar to get it in place, and the tube was unsurprisingly pinchflatted in like 50 places.

Took it into the shop to get my "flat" fixed and mentioned that the tire was almost impossible to mount. Mechanic said $15 for labor and price of a tube, and I said sure because otherwise I was cutting off the tire myself. All told she spent almost an hour working on the tire trying to get it off and then re-mounted and finally let me exchange the Vittoria for a Panaracer which fit much better, even though there wasn't anything defective about the Vittoria. Recommended some better tire levers than I'd been using (her favorite pro racing for a few years, apparently). Still only charged $15 for the labor even though it ended up being way more than a regular flat fix.

Only ended up paying $9 out of pocket including the levers, since the vittoria was more expensive than the panaracer and I got full exchange for it.

Basically, I went to get something fixed at a big-box bike shop and it was LESS EXPENSIVE than if I'd done it myself; it would have run the full $$ for a different tire even if I'd gotten the vittoria off without cutting it, which isn't likely.

Mind. Blown.

This is dumb. How do you think the bikes at the LBS got there? They didn't grow on trees out back.

I was kidding. I have no regard for the Earth. I leave all my electronics on always, and have a sprinkler running on the driveway non-stop.

My concern is supporting cut-rate places just because they're cut-rate. That's why we have Home Depot, and other places with zero employee knowledge.

As for the Ulock, the bandit was kind enough to leave his tool. It was a steel bar from I'd say a security window grate. Two and a half feet long, and about a half inch square. Not very wide at all. Now I know how to defeat Ulocks.

pics of said u-lock?

As suggested above, my next lock will be one with an anti-theft guarantee.

I talked to three people who watched it happen and told me what a shame it was.

Online bike shops aren't necessarily cut rate, they just have lower overhead costs. Also I have found that many of the OBSs are more knowledgble than many LBSs. Furthermore, many LBSs are also OBSs. Some of my LBSs are OBSs. I actually mail order stuff from my LBS because its often cheaper and ecofriendlier to have it delivered to me than for me to drive my car there. These days the distinction between LBS and OBS is totally blurred. Just buy a bike wherever you want. You are, no doubt, supporting the industry more than the average person regardless of where you shop. All OBSs are small businesses compared to walmart and home depot.

My LBS is crap for the most part. There are only 2 in my town and it's the same shop in 2 different locations. Now, I will say there is one full time employee in the one closest to me who I get along with well, he seems helpful and everything, but the fact is they overcharge ($40 for a $17 Miche BB and $28 to install, I didn't purchase) and they are pretty much a college town bike shop with cruisers and bmx bikes with some expensive roadies thrown in the mix. They recently got in an order of the orgin 8 del pasados with orgin 8 components and I'm curious to see what they'll be selling them for, but I can imagine it will be over $500.

You're absolutely right. It's just hard to tell some times. I ended up calling one place in California and the guy on the phone was clearly on the ball. Won my confidence.

This is the point where I would stop buying expensive bikes.

As a career bike mechanic, this is my manifesto:

If I could do what I do for free, I would. Unfortunately, I have to get paid. It's the nature of my job. When I win the lottery, believe me, I'll fix you your bike at no charge to you. Until then, just pay attention when I don't charge you for labor. It means I think you're a valued customer who I want to come back.

There are some decent shops in my town, but some places do tend to overcharge, even on used parts.

One LBS here in Portland is pretty expensive compared to other shops. I went in there with a friend who needed brakes real fast, since another shop did not have any, and they wanted to charge 35$ to put them on. I laughed as the mechanic said that, then told my friend, "**** that, I will put them on for you out front." They were already charging him for two levers, since I guess they do not like to sell single levers.

I used to go into another LBS with a friend all the time, and we talked with the two mechanics there constantly, super nice dudes. I went in there a few weeks ago, some new dudes were working there. They came off as dicks, and I have not been back since.

Also, you probably will not see too many closeout deals until closer to the end of the year.

Very true. I have paid and do pay for repairs and LBS parts when needed. Full retail, no qualms. My original concern was the stores trying to charge more than MSRP or not even put all the manufacturer's parts on a new bike. That should raise a flag to the average person, no? Would the manufacturer be ok with that?

As others said, it's more the exception than the rule to find knowledgeable mechanics. As I'm sure it's an exception that the experienced mechanic feels appreciated.

I once watched the owner at the one store trying to explain to a guy with a bent fork on his Walmart V bike, what it would cost, and how an adult rider is probably going to break it again. I think the guy was trying to process how, if the bike cost 120 bucks and the fork was like a small part of the whole, then a new fork should cost like 30 bucks.

It can be such a lottery at the same shop too, dpepends who serves you.

Went into one of my local stores at the weekend looking for some low profile 27" tyres. Asked the lass behind the counter, she had a brief poke about and came back "No we don't have anything like that."

As I was leaving, a guy who had been fiddling with the window display asked what I'd been looking for. I told him. "How low a profile do you need?". I said it was for a bike designed to take 700C wheels that I'd fitted an old 27" wheelset to which had swallow tyres on that fit fine but the Michelins citys I got foul the frame.

"Oh right, I've got just what you need." Disappeared into the same room as the lass had been in and came back with a couple of Schwable 27 x 1 1/4 tyres which are nearly a carbon copy of the old swallow ones.

Sold them to me and said if they don't fit, as long as they aren't marked, he has some 1 1/8" ones too that he'd be happy to swap them for (they fit fine).

The same lass had previously sold me a 3/32" track cog which turned out to be a 1/8". I wonder how much business she costs them.

I wonder why you didn't wave your hands in front of her face till she asked what you were doing, then you could have replied,"I'm sorry, just checking to see if you were blind, but no, I was right, your just stupid."

Seriously man? Where do you think the LBS get the bikes? Grow them out back?

We're all just stomping around with carbon on our feet, so what does it matter if you have it shipped, or get it from the LBS (who had it shipped)?

I only buy certain things from the LBS. If I was investing in a >$2000 road bike, I would probably buy from LBS just b/c of warranty issues, etc. BUT, for any cheaper bike I would go online just b/c you will save a lot of money. I still buy some parts (chains, cogs, tools, etc) at LBS for convenience sake.

$950 for a pista? HAHAHA

Also, I have found that most LBS employees aren't exactly experts. At the risk of sounding like a d-bag, I'm gonna go ahead and say that I know more about FG and road bikes than 90% of the employees at LBShops. There is only one LBS mechanic in Austin that i trust to work on my bike. When I was first starting out in FG bikes, I had a left crank arm fall off and a hub stripped b/c the mechanics at both shops didn't do the work well. That's when I started buying tools and learning how to do my own work.

I went to one shop looking for a 700c front wheel and was told "We don't have anything like that." Haven't been back since then.