Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
Reload this Page >

Assult with a deadly weapon

Notices
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

Assult with a deadly weapon

Old 01-12-10, 01:07 PM
  #1  
rashandcurious
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
rashandcurious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Assult with a deadly weapon

For the group's consideration;

My commute takes me through some of the more unsavory parts of my city, particularly a large stretch of abandon warehouse and industrial space. During the day, the primary road I use is pretty busy, but after 6-7PM, traffic drops to a minimum. I work at a bar, so most nights I'm coming back at 1-2 in the morning. Every so often, when an SUV buzzes too close or someone shouts/throws something I'm reminded of how vulnerable because I'm on a bike and because there's no one else around.

I've never had a serious problem on this ride, but that hasn't stopped me from imagining what I'd do if someone tried to jump me at light or something like that. Ideally, I'd use my superior speed and maneuverability to avoid and keep going, but I always take some comfort in the fact that my u-lock is within easy reach and could definitely be used as a weapon if need be (medium onguard pitbull lock).

So my question is, where does the law stand on the use of a u-lock as a weapon (defensive)? Looking at the weight and design of this one in particular, a solid blow to the head could certainly be damaging, and very possibly deadly. Could using it be considered overkill and cause more legal problems down the road?
rashandcurious is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 01:27 PM
  #2  
filtersweep
Senior Member
 
filtersweep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I would post this to A&S.

I don't know where you live, but random assaults on cyclists are quite rare--- discounting what motorists and passengers do while driving (where your U-Lock is of limited use).

If you are close enough to use a u-lock on a motorist who is out of his car, you are in a serious situation. Does the law really matter at that point?
filtersweep is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 01:32 PM
  #3  
ADSR
Gentlemen.
 
ADSR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Chico, CA
Posts: 1,516

Bikes: S-Works e5 Aerotech with 2009 Veloce and a Fulcrum 5s

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I think a gun would probably go further in solving the problem of jerk ass drives. There aren't any witnesses, remember?
ADSR is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 01:35 PM
  #4  
PedallingATX
Comanche Racing
 
PedallingATX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Posts: 2,820

Bikes: Presto NJS build, Specialized Allez Pro w/ full Dura Ace and Ksyrium SLs, 1990something Specialized Sirrus

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
if you were on your bike and some guy came up to you trying to mug or assault you, it would be well within your legal rights to defend yourself using a u-lock. I say this b/c it would be well within your rights to defend yourself with a gun, and a u-lock certainly isn't anymore dangerous than a fire arm. The only times where the law gets tricky in these situations is when it is unclear whether or not you were actually in danger. I wouldn't go swinging that lock at anyone who is just yelling at you or something...
PedallingATX is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 02:03 PM
  #5  
elTwitcho
Live without dead time
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There are two realities to face here ;

1- you will probably never get a chance to use your lock in self defence

2- if you do, you bean a guy with a lock, you ride off into the night and unless the cops catch you in the act you'll never be found
elTwitcho is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 02:20 PM
  #6  
ianjk
:)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: duluth
Posts: 3,392

Bikes: '07 Pista, '09 Fantom Cross Uno, '8? Miyata, '67 Stingray, '0? Zoo mod trials, Tallbike, Chopper, '73 Schwinn Collegiate, '67 Triumph Chopper, '69 CB350, '58 BSA Spitfire, '73 CB450

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by PedallingATX View Post
I say this b/c it would be well within your rights to defend yourself with a gun.
Not everywhere.

Without a c&c, sobriety test, and proof that the attacker was armed, you are in big trouble in most places (that I know of).
ianjk is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 03:02 PM
  #7  
bigvegan
Senior Member
 
bigvegan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 658
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1. The rules of self-defense (basically, at least in CA) are as follows
a) If you need to defend yourself or your property from non-deadly harm, you are only allowed to use "reasonable" force.
b) If someone places you or another person in jeopardy of imminent death or bodily harm, you are allowed to use deadly force to protect yourself or that person. (Other states have a "duty to retreat" before deadly force is acceptable, so YMMV.)

If you do use any level of force, and the police get involved, it will likely cost you a great deal of time and money to deal with this, even if you are completely in the right, so plan accordingly.

2. A U-lock, while heavy and potentially harmful, is not a good defensive weapon. If you throw it at a car, that's not self-defense, that's retaliation, and that puts you in the wrong. If you try to use it in an actual fight, you'll need some room to swing, and it's pretty obvious what you'll be doing, making it easier to defend against. If you sucker punch somebody with it, again, you're probably in the wrong.

TLR - Exercise common sense, ride as defensively as possible, and carry pepper spray if it's legal in your area (it's effective enough to give you time to get away from trouble, and is extraordinarily unlikely to kill anyone).



Originally Posted by rashandcurious View Post
For the group's consideration;

My commute takes me through some of the more unsavory parts of my city, particularly a large stretch of abandon warehouse and industrial space. During the day, the primary road I use is pretty busy, but after 6-7PM, traffic drops to a minimum. I work at a bar, so most nights I'm coming back at 1-2 in the morning. Every so often, when an SUV buzzes too close or someone shouts/throws something I'm reminded of how vulnerable because I'm on a bike and because there's no one else around.

I've never had a serious problem on this ride, but that hasn't stopped me from imagining what I'd do if someone tried to jump me at light or something like that. Ideally, I'd use my superior speed and maneuverability to avoid and keep going, but I always take some comfort in the fact that my u-lock is within easy reach and could definitely be used as a weapon if need be (medium onguard pitbull lock).

So my question is, where does the law stand on the use of a u-lock as a weapon (defensive)? Looking at the weight and design of this one in particular, a solid blow to the head could certainly be damaging, and very possibly deadly. Could using it be considered overkill and cause more legal problems down the road?
bigvegan is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 03:06 PM
  #8  
ilikebikes
K2ProFlex baby!
 
ilikebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
Posts: 6,124

Bikes: to many to list

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 26 Posts
Originally Posted by PedallingATX View Post
if you were on your bike and some guy came up to you trying to mug or assault you, it would be well within your legal rights to defend yourself using a u-lock. I say this b/c it would be well within your rights to defend yourself with a gun, and a u-lock certainly isn't anymore dangerous than a fire arm. The only times where the law gets tricky in these situations is when it is unclear whether or not you were actually in danger. I wouldn't go swinging that lock at anyone who is just yelling at you or something...
If the guy had a knife or gun you might not have a problem as long as the cops see the knife or gun, but just FYI, when I worked as a prison guard we were not allowed to strike the inmates (in self defence) on or about the head, no matter what they were carrying, chances of loosing our jobs were great, chances of being bought up on attempted murder charges by the inmate were for sure.
__________________
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
ilikebikes is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 03:10 PM
  #9  
evotion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This occurred during a local ride in LA: some cyclists were riding and a ****** in an SUV decided to tail the riders and swerve into them, attempting to intimidate them. Fearing for their safety, one of the riders decided to take a ulock to the car's window and shattered it. Luckily, a cop saw it and deemed it as self defense. However, if a cop DOESN'T see it, it's a sticky situation, unless there's other credible witnesses around.
evotion is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 03:14 PM
  #10  
Mongoose441
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Peoples Republic of Cambridge
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Better to sort it out in the court then in the Hospital or worse
Mongoose441 is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 06:15 PM
  #11  
dayvan cowboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Athens, Ohio
Posts: 1,568

Bikes: Fuji Track, Half built 70s Azuki

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i thought this was going to be about that doctor in LA who got 5 years for assault with a deadly weapon in a dispute with cyclists.
dayvan cowboy is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 06:50 PM
  #12  
LoRoK
a.k.a. QUADZILLA
 
LoRoK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,505

Bikes: Super Pista, Basso, Big Dummy

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I had an incidence of road rage a while ago where someone tried to intentionally door me after I flipped 'em off after they buzzed me and honked. Another time I flipped a guy off who sped ahead to almost right hook me, I missed his bumper by inches, and he chased me down and jumped out of his car and swung at me while I rode past. In both of these occasions I reacted with a rage that scared the **** out of me. I was picturing my ulock crushing these guys skulls, seeing and hearing it. It was very vivid, and I knew that if I had caught these guys I would have gone to jail for a long time. I'm sure I would have not been able to control myself when in that situation. Too much adrenaline. Both times I had to sit down for a while and try to get back to normal. I don't want to be in a situation where I feel like I need to do something like that. That's why this thread has inspired me to purchase some pepper spray. Anyone got any recommendations?
LoRoK is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 06:53 PM
  #13  
dayvan cowboy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Athens, Ohio
Posts: 1,568

Bikes: Fuji Track, Half built 70s Azuki

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by LoRoK View Post
That's why this thread has inspired me to purchase some pepper spray. Anyone got any recommendations?
my on and off girlfriend lives alone in a big city and she makes her own by boiling the hottest peppers she can find at the store and then keeps it in a squirt gun. its cheaper and apparently rather effective.
dayvan cowboy is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 06:58 PM
  #14  
Cipher
Senior Member
 
Cipher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Minnesota, U.S.A.
Posts: 561

Bikes: LeMond Victoire

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I have a question, have you considered a week or 3 down the road traveling this route and the possibility of the individual possibly paying you another late night visit? (Just a thought).

Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post
There are two realities to face here ;

2- if you do, you bean a guy with a lock, you ride off into the night and unless the cops catch you in the act you'll never be found
Cipher is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 10:22 PM
  #15  
dookie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,299
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-Flamethrower!
dookie is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 10:37 PM
  #16  
Leukybear 
THE STUFFED
 
Leukybear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,680

Bikes: Rock Lobster; EAI Bareknuckle; Evil Insurgent

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts

This man didn't get in trouble.....
Leukybear is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 10:52 PM
  #17  
jakerock
helmet brake
 
jakerock's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 624

Bikes: Kilo TT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
watching this video awhile back made me decide that I never wanted to hit anyone with a u lock.
you gotta defend yourself sometimes, i know... but jeez.
jakerock is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 11:23 PM
  #18  
Mongoose441
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Peoples Republic of Cambridge
Posts: 138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jakerock View Post
watching this video awhile back made me decide that I never wanted to hit anyone with a u lock.
you gotta defend yourself sometimes, i know... but jeez.
Nobody wants to to hit anybody That guy was a clown He could of just rode off and it would have been over. Givin the chance I will just ride Fast if I have to. no shame in avoiding anything But if I am in danger or going to get robbed I have no problem Putting My u lock to someones mouth.
Mongoose441 is offline  
Old 01-12-10, 11:31 PM
  #19  
Leukybear 
THE STUFFED
 
Leukybear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,680

Bikes: Rock Lobster; EAI Bareknuckle; Evil Insurgent

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Mongoose441 View Post
if I am in danger or going to get robbed I have no problem Putting My u lock to someones mouth.
+1 death by u lock FTW; no witnesses. .
Leukybear is offline  
Old 01-13-10, 01:05 AM
  #20  
luno-pdx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
if someone does try to rob you / hurt you for real (i.e. with a gun) a u-lock isn't doing much about that. if it's just a fight, why use a u-lock? unless you think they're going to beat you to death with their bare hands (they won't)
luno-pdx is offline  
Old 01-13-10, 07:41 AM
  #21  
soyboy
Senior Member
 
soyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: brooklyn
Posts: 939

Bikes: raleigh gran prix converted to fixed

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
you'll only regret using a ulock to attack anything, person or property, don't stoop to that level
soyboy is offline  
Old 01-13-10, 08:50 AM
  #22  
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Between the mountains and the lake.
Posts: 16,681

Bikes: 8 bikes - one for each day of the week!

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Bigvegan pretty much covered it all, but having received a lot of defensive training, it mostly boils down to two things.

One, you cannot be the one that provoked the situation in any way. If you flip someone off, or yell at them, you will be seen as escalating a situation, rather than trying to avoid one. If you don't have the maturity to turn and walk (or ride) away from an argument, you should not carry any sort of weapon.

Two, you need to be using the correct tool for the job. You cannot pull a gun on a kid with a water balloon. If the amount of force you are using for a situation seems excessive, you will have legal problems.
Brian is offline  
Old 01-13-10, 05:16 PM
  #23  
BurntPocketHole
Senior Member
 
BurntPocketHole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 50

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse, Jamis Durango, Fuji Track Pros

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I feel

Carry a gun
If you are going to be killed, have the chance to stop it from happening. At that point court costs and police dont matter anymore.
Leave a situation by any means if its going to escalate. Unless things get lethal, should be getting ass out of the situation not grabbing a u lock to fight with someone.
BurntPocketHole is offline  
Old 01-14-10, 10:41 AM
  #24  
bobfromwaco
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
In my state the car becomes a weapon when used in a menacing fashion. This means that whatever force is necessary to ensure your safety is legal. Let me repeat that. Whatever Force is Neccesary. You can't chase them down but you can stop the assault if they remain. But that's in Texas so...
bobfromwaco is offline  
Old 01-14-10, 10:45 AM
  #25  
Brian
Senior Member
 
Brian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Between the mountains and the lake.
Posts: 16,681

Bikes: 8 bikes - one for each day of the week!

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Texas is its own country.
Brian is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.