For the group's consideration;

My commute takes me through some of the more unsavory parts of my city, particularly a large stretch of abandon warehouse and industrial space. During the day, the primary road I use is pretty busy, but after 6-7PM, traffic drops to a minimum. I work at a bar, so most nights I'm coming back at 1-2 in the morning. Every so often, when an SUV buzzes too close or someone shouts/throws something I'm reminded of how vulnerable because I'm on a bike and because there's no one else around.

I've never had a serious problem on this ride, but that hasn't stopped me from imagining what I'd do if someone tried to jump me at light or something like that. Ideally, I'd use my superior speed and maneuverability to avoid and keep going, but I always take some comfort in the fact that my u-lock is within easy reach and could definitely be used as a weapon if need be (medium onguard pitbull lock).

So my question is, where does the law stand on the use of a u-lock as a weapon (defensive)? Looking at the weight and design of this one in particular, a solid blow to the head could certainly be damaging, and very possibly deadly. Could using it be considered overkill and cause more legal problems down the road?

I would post this to A&S.

I don't know where you live, but random assaults on cyclists are quite rare--- discounting what motorists and passengers do while driving (where your U-Lock is of limited use).

If you are close enough to use a u-lock on a motorist who is out of his car, you are in a serious situation. Does the law really matter at that point?

I think a gun would probably go further in solving the problem of jerk ass drives. There aren't any witnesses, remember?

if you were on your bike and some guy came up to you trying to mug or assault you, it would be well within your legal rights to defend yourself using a u-lock. I say this b/c it would be well within your rights to defend yourself with a gun, and a u-lock certainly isn't anymore dangerous than a fire arm. The only times where the law gets tricky in these situations is when it is unclear whether or not you were actually in danger. I wouldn't go swinging that lock at anyone who is just yelling at you or something...

There are two realities to face here ;

1- you will probably never get a chance to use your lock in self defence

2- if you do, you bean a guy with a lock, you ride off into the night and unless the cops catch you in the act you'll never be found

Not everywhere.

Without a c&c, sobriety test, and proof that the attacker was armed, you are in big trouble in most places (that I know of).

1. The rules of self-defense (basically, at least in CA) are as follows
a) If you need to defend yourself or your property from non-deadly harm, you are only allowed to use "reasonable" force.
b) If someone places you or another person in jeopardy of imminent death or bodily harm, you are allowed to use deadly force to protect yourself or that person. (Other states have a "duty to retreat" before deadly force is acceptable, so YMMV.)

If you do use any level of force, and the police get involved, it will likely cost you a great deal of time and money to deal with this, even if you are completely in the right, so plan accordingly.

2. A U-lock, while heavy and potentially harmful, is not a good defensive weapon. If you throw it at a car, that's not self-defense, that's retaliation, and that puts you in the wrong. If you try to use it in an actual fight, you'll need some room to swing, and it's pretty obvious what you'll be doing, making it easier to defend against. If you sucker punch somebody with it, again, you're probably in the wrong.

TLR - Exercise common sense, ride as defensively as possible, and carry pepper spray if it's legal in your area (it's effective enough to give you time to get away from trouble, and is extraordinarily unlikely to kill anyone).

If the guy had a knife or gun you might not have a problem as long as the cops see the knife or gun, but just FYI, when I worked as a prison guard we were not allowed to strike the inmates (in self defence) on or about the head, no matter what they were carrying, chances of loosing our jobs were great, chances of being bought up on attempted murder charges by the inmate were for sure.

This occurred during a local ride in LA: some cyclists were riding and a ****** in an SUV decided to tail the riders and swerve into them, attempting to intimidate them. Fearing for their safety, one of the riders decided to take a ulock to the car's window and shattered it. Luckily, a cop saw it and deemed it as self defense. However, if a cop DOESN'T see it, it's a sticky situation, unless there's other credible witnesses around.

Better to sort it out in the court then in the Hospital or worse

i thought this was going to be about that doctor in LA who got 5 years for assault with a deadly weapon in a dispute with cyclists.

I had an incidence of road rage a while ago where someone tried to intentionally door me after I flipped 'em off after they buzzed me and honked. Another time I flipped a guy off who sped ahead to almost right hook me, I missed his bumper by inches, and he chased me down and jumped out of his car and swung at me while I rode past. In both of these occasions I reacted with a rage that scared the **** out of me. I was picturing my ulock crushing these guys skulls, seeing and hearing it. It was very vivid, and I knew that if I had caught these guys I would have gone to jail for a long time. I'm sure I would have not been able to control myself when in that situation. Too much adrenaline. Both times I had to sit down for a while and try to get back to normal. I don't want to be in a situation where I feel like I need to do something like that. That's why this thread has inspired me to purchase some pepper spray. Anyone got any recommendations?

my on and off girlfriend lives alone in a big city and she makes her own by boiling the hottest peppers she can find at the store and then keeps it in a squirt gun. its cheaper and apparently rather effective.

I have a question, have you considered a week or 3 down the road traveling this route and the possibility of the individual possibly paying you another late night visit? (Just a thought).

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-Flamethrower!

This man didn't get in trouble.....

watching this video awhile back made me decide that I never wanted to hit anyone with a u lock.
you gotta defend yourself sometimes, i know... but jeez.

Nobody wants to to hit anybody That guy was a clown He could of just rode off and it would have been over. Givin the chance I will just ride Fast if I have to. no shame in avoiding anything But if I am in danger or going to get robbed I have no problem Putting My u lock to someones mouth.

+1 death by u lock FTW; no witnesses. ¬.¬

if someone does try to rob you / hurt you for real (i.e. with a gun) a u-lock isn't doing much about that. if it's just a fight, why use a u-lock? unless you think they're going to beat you to death with their bare hands (they won't)

you'll only regret using a ulock to attack anything, person or property, don't stoop to that level

Bigvegan pretty much covered it all, but having received a lot of defensive training, it mostly boils down to two things.

One, you cannot be the one that provoked the situation in any way. If you flip someone off, or yell at them, you will be seen as escalating a situation, rather than trying to avoid one. If you don't have the maturity to turn and walk (or ride) away from an argument, you should not carry any sort of weapon.

Two, you need to be using the correct tool for the job. You cannot pull a gun on a kid with a water balloon. If the amount of force you are using for a situation seems excessive, you will have legal problems.

I feel

Carry a gun
If you are going to be killed, have the chance to stop it from happening. At that point court costs and police dont matter anymore.
Leave a situation by any means if its going to escalate. Unless things get lethal, should be getting ass out of the situation not grabbing a u lock to fight with someone.

In my state the car becomes a weapon when used in a menacing fashion. This means that whatever force is necessary to ensure your safety is legal. Let me repeat that. Whatever Force is Neccesary. You can't chase them down but you can stop the assault if they remain. But that's in Texas so...

Texas is its own country.