Why Oh Why?!
#31
モㄥ工匕モ 爪モ爪乃モ尺
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From: LA San Gabriel, California
Bikes: Custom frame
#32
Obviously it's not simply standing on them, since every spoke is in static tension, the bottom spokes just lose some, which has the same effect as compression, but without buckling the spoke.
By far the majority of load is carried by a few spokes at the botom of the wheel, not the full bottom 16 in a 32 spoke wheel.
#33
Never heard it said that way before, but I'm guessing they're referring to the fact that the wheel supports weight by standing on the bottom spokes, rather than hanging from the top ones, as you'd intuitively think.
Obviously it's not simply standing on them, since every spoke is in static tension, the bottom spokes just lose some, which has the same effect as compression, but without buckling the spoke.
By far the majority of load is carried by a few spokes at the botom of the wheel, not the full bottom 16 in a 32 spoke wheel.
Obviously it's not simply standing on them, since every spoke is in static tension, the bottom spokes just lose some, which has the same effect as compression, but without buckling the spoke.
By far the majority of load is carried by a few spokes at the botom of the wheel, not the full bottom 16 in a 32 spoke wheel.
The weight is not on the bottom spokes, but along the top 180 degrees of the wheel.
Spokes have no strength in compression, but a lot in tension.
The top spokes transfer the load up to the rim, the bottom spokes (all of them actually) are holding the rim in a stiff strong shape, so it is the rim that is then transfering the load to the ground.
#34
Not quite.
The weight is not on the bottom spokes, but along the top 180 degrees of the wheel.
Spokes have no strength in compression, but a lot in tension.
The top spokes transfer the load up to the rim, the bottom spokes (all of them actually) are holding the rim in a stiff strong shape, so it is the rim that is then transfering the load to the ground.
The weight is not on the bottom spokes, but along the top 180 degrees of the wheel.
Spokes have no strength in compression, but a lot in tension.
The top spokes transfer the load up to the rim, the bottom spokes (all of them actually) are holding the rim in a stiff strong shape, so it is the rim that is then transfering the load to the ground.
#36
Other way around, but I'm referring to the interpretation given in The Bicycle Wheel; top spokes prestress the bottom spokes in order to GIVE them strength in compression, same way steel reinforcing bar can let concrete members take loads that are effectively tension loads. Only the bottom few spokes see significant changes in tension when the wheel is loaded. Either way, pretty sure it's a matter of semantics because it's the balance of forces that are important, and without the other 16 spokes the wheel isn't going to be a wheel.
#37
Some of the strongest wheels may have very few spokes:

This Shimano MTB wheelset is known to be one of the strongest in existence, but notice the special lacing pattern, hubs and rim.
Review with info: Shimano WH-R540

This Shimano MTB wheelset is known to be one of the strongest in existence, but notice the special lacing pattern, hubs and rim.
Review with info: Shimano WH-R540
#39
Out fishing with Annie on his lap, a cigar in one hand and a ginger ale in the other, watching the sunset.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 16,049
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From: South Florida
Bikes: Techna Wheelchair and a Sun EZ 3 Recumbent Trike
A lot of the time, the FG riders are young, and just starting out in the world, careerwise, or not even a career yet, just a job or in school, so yeah, I can understand a fixation on cheap pricing.
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. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
. “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.”- Fredrick Nietzsche
"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." - Immanuel Kant
#42
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Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Rocket City, No'ala
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 1985 Pinarello Treviso, 1990 Gardin Shred, 2006 Bianchi San Jose
Are people using these as 29"er wheels? You say yours are 26". Did Shimano stop making them?
#43
K2ProFlex baby!
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
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your Maddy sucks! but only 'cause you stole my vintage headbadge idea. ;0)
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You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
#45
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 698
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From: Portland, OR
Bikes: Leader 722TS, Surly Cross Check, GT Outpost, Haro Z16, Trek 1000
wow so many posts... ok so, I'm getting a special treat to be able to order some stuff wholesale... Mostly I am gathering parts for 2 wheel sets... 1 is a track set that will see road too (but not a ton) and the other is a polo/busting around set... So as I look in the catalog alls I see is 32h... Even the velocity chukkers are only offered in 32h (this is not a super big distributer mind you). Its just sort of frustrating to see when you have always ridden/ been told 36h is the way to go considering your size... I dont know where I am going with this, I just got off work...
#46
Can you find the Shimano link for these mountain bike WH-R540 wheels? I've looked on their website and just see their WH-Mxxx wheels with the M standing for Mountain; like the R stands for Road.
Are people using these as 29"er wheels? You say yours are 26". Did Shimano stop making them?
Are people using these as 29"er wheels? You say yours are 26". Did Shimano stop making them?
I've seen several of these wheels IRL, and they were all 26". Online, everywhere I looked, they have been used by MTB guys. That's all just anecdotal, though, so make of it what you will.
I do believe Shimano isn't making them anymore, but I'm not 100% sure.
#47
"Bicycle Wheel as Prestressed Structure
J. Engrg. Mech. Volume 119, Issue 3, pp. 439-455 (March 1993)
C. J. Burgoyne 1 and R. Dilmaghanian2
1Univ. Lect., Engrg. Dept., Univ. of Cambridge, Trumpington St., Cambridge CB2 1PZ, United Kingdom
2Formerly, Steel Construction Inst.
Issue Date: March 1993
Bicycle wheels achieve their structural efficiency by making use of prestressing in three ways. Tests show that the bottom spokes carry virtually all the load by compressive forces, which reduce the tensile prestress set up in the spokes when the wheel was made. The test results are compared with an analysis that considers the spokes as a disk that can carry force in one direction only. This is shown to give good agreement, as does an analysis that considers the rim as a straight beam on an elastic foundation. The behavior of the wheel with an inflated tire is also considered, and it is shown that good comparisons with theory are obtained if the reaction from the road is assumed to be distributed over a specific length of the rim. Prestressing is shown to be important also in the mechanism by which the various forces are transmitted through the tire from the road to the rim.
©1993 American Society of Civil Engineers"
Last edited by Yellowbeard; 05-08-10 at 08:52 AM. Reason: formatting and punctuation
#48
There was a "Reply" to that article, published 2 years later, but my institution doesn't have access to that journal. Can you access it? Maybe there's some interesting counter argument.
Only if there ARE no bottom spokes.
"Bicycle Wheel as Prestressed Structure
J. Engrg. Mech. Volume 119, Issue 3, pp. 439-455 (March 1993)
C. J. Burgoyne 1 and R. Dilmaghanian2
1Univ. Lect., Engrg. Dept., Univ. of Cambridge, Trumpington St., Cambridge CB2 1PZ, United Kingdom
2Formerly, Steel Construction Inst.
Issue Date: March 1993
Bicycle wheels achieve their structural efficiency by making use of prestressing in three ways. Tests show that the bottom spokes carry virtually all the load by compressive forces, which reduce the tensile prestress set up in the spokes when the wheel was made. The test results are compared with an analysis that considers the spokes as a disk that can carry force in one direction only. This is shown to give good agreement, as does an analysis that considers the rim as a straight beam on an elastic foundation. The behavior of the wheel with an inflated tire is also considered, and it is shown that good comparisons with theory are obtained if the reaction from the road is assumed to be distributed over a specific length of the rim. Prestressing is shown to be important also in the mechanism by which the various forces are transmitted through the tire from the road to the rim.
©1993 American Society of Civil Engineers"
"Bicycle Wheel as Prestressed Structure
J. Engrg. Mech. Volume 119, Issue 3, pp. 439-455 (March 1993)
C. J. Burgoyne 1 and R. Dilmaghanian2
1Univ. Lect., Engrg. Dept., Univ. of Cambridge, Trumpington St., Cambridge CB2 1PZ, United Kingdom
2Formerly, Steel Construction Inst.
Issue Date: March 1993
Bicycle wheels achieve their structural efficiency by making use of prestressing in three ways. Tests show that the bottom spokes carry virtually all the load by compressive forces, which reduce the tensile prestress set up in the spokes when the wheel was made. The test results are compared with an analysis that considers the spokes as a disk that can carry force in one direction only. This is shown to give good agreement, as does an analysis that considers the rim as a straight beam on an elastic foundation. The behavior of the wheel with an inflated tire is also considered, and it is shown that good comparisons with theory are obtained if the reaction from the road is assumed to be distributed over a specific length of the rim. Prestressing is shown to be important also in the mechanism by which the various forces are transmitted through the tire from the road to the rim.
©1993 American Society of Civil Engineers"
#49
Check out the exaggerated deformation and strain diagrams on pages 8 and 9 of the PDF. There's barely any tension increase in the top half of the wheel, but significant reduction at the bottom because of localized deformation.
I'm not really pushing the point, though. However you describe it, the wheel supports a load through a change in the net internal force, and a bottom spoke in compression is equivalent to one in reduced tension.







I didn't 'steal' it. I was inspired by it.