Just built these - I'll let you guys decide for yourselves what you're looking at here

Sorry about the crap image quality - this ancient camera was the only thing at my disposal right now.

Cool, could you give some specs on them?

Phil hubs. Red seal gave it away.....well, that and your post on how to get the things apart....

Beautiful!

I couldn't help but recall a brief metion of invisible spokes.

Look closer!

I'm not just bragging about having Phil's: check out the bolts...

err.. or nuts.. or, specifically lack thereof

Answers: https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/63312-locking-skewers-track-bike.html

I knew you had the locking skewers on, I noticed that (and remembered that thread). Nice work.

You should do a write up on the process.

On the subject of wheel building, I thought y'all might like to read this, which comes from the Barnett's Bicycle manual, aka the definitive source:

Large-flange hubs were traditionally thought to
increase a wheelís lateral, radial and torsional stiffness.
Of these, only torsional stiffness has been scientifically
verified, but the increase in torsional stiffness
reduces spoke fatigue by an insignificant degree.
Small-flange hubs have been traditionally described
as having less radial stiffness (making them more comfortable),
less lateral stiffness (making them less stable
in cornering) and less torsional stiffness, which is true,
but of low significance (see above). The assumptions
about comfort and lateral stiffness with either flange
type are false and the difference in torsional stiffness
is not significant, so flange diameter should not be a
major consideration in designing a wheel. This is also
true for mixed-flange designs (small flange on one side
and large flange on the other side).
In conclusion, flange-diameter considerations
are relatively insignificant with regard to wheel
properties.

i was suprised to learn that flange size is a purely cosmetic choice. I'm not saying that the high flange hubs don't look awesome, but when I get a pair (har har), I think I'll save me some weight and go low.

yeah, it's purely for the bling-bling. although, you really aren't going to loose much weight by taking the diameter down a few millimeters.. if you're worried about that you may as well just empty the change out of your pockets for a similar weight advantage.

ive heard about people just replacing the allen bolts with a less common key pattern like the star ones. that would be reasonably secure unless someone was scoping your bike for a while and went and bought the correct wrench and then waited for the right moment to strike...

are those the kryptonite skewers? i heard they rust. i have a cheapo set on the front wheel of a geared bike and they actually work great. i think they were $15 from a used sporting goods store in pdx.

Yeah, using a torx bolt, star pattern, or pentagonal allen bolt is another good step - however not ideal. All it takes is someone to case your setup then get the proper tools.. chances are my bike will be locked up in the same general areas pretty often.

With the above bolts, there's also the option of just torquing the bolt off using a wrench on the outside. The krypto skewers are dome shaped and come fairly flush with the dropouts so this kind of attack would be difficult at best.

I also have a friend who puts some kind of epoxy in his allen bolts after getting the bike adjusted. This, as you can imagine, is a little annoying when you need to make an adjustment, but is worth it in the long run. You need to chip all the epoxy out first, which takes around 10 minutes with some patience. I've also heard of people using wood putty, but that doesn't sound like a good option to me since it's water soluable.

I think I might combine the above ideas and put a torx head bolt on my headset/seat/bars and then epoxy them. Having a great wheel lock system is no good if someone undoes the headset.

wow. that is some serious paranoia. not that its unfounded but damn. i would sooner get another bike i dont care about as much than epoxy all my ****!

It's not paranoia. At least not unjustified anyway.

I could tell you stories that would make you think the above things are totally halfassed efforts. Unfortunetly in the bigger cities it's just how things are (for now).

People also told me I was being paranoid about the kryptonite lock thing - who's laughing now haha

I don't know...I'm real skeptical of the following situation:

Some thief spends expends serious effort to steal your bike or a component thereof, i.e. has to chisel out epoxy, has to bolt-cut or hacksaw your chain, etc.

And while the above is happening,

Some good samaritan steps up and says "Hey, is that your bike?!? No? Then begone, brigand, or I shall report you at once to the local constabulary!"

Psyche. Who would ever do that? Very few people, that's who. And if you're lucky enough to have one of those very few around when a thief is working on your bike, why wouldn't they just say "yeah, it's my bike. Lost my damn lock key" or whatever?

That fact of the matter is, if someone really wants it, it's theirs. Unless you don't leave your bike locked up outside. Keep an eye on it at all times if at all possible. If we can agree that short of not owning a bike or keeping it with you at all times, nothing will deter a dedicated theif, and that all these security measures are to stop crimes of opportunity, than I really don't see the point of locking skewers. Seems like a lot of hassle that could be avoided by just using torx nuts or even allen nuts. Who walks around with an allen wrench just for the heck of it? Bike theives, that's who, and locking skewers ain't gonna stop them either.

How's this for a good enough reason:

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/63736-sf-brand-new-white-deep-dish-track-wheels-stolen.html

Had that person been working on the bike for another minute they would have had a swift kick to the back of the head and I would still have my super sweet campy wheelset.

And yes - locking skewers will stop them, because short of sawing the frame in six places you aren't going to remove those wheels without a key.

Just playing devil's advocate...

Are you the only one with a key? What's to stop a would be thief from carryng around a locking skewers key in addition to an allen wrench, a torx bit, etc. etc.?

Face it...fancy bikes and their fancy parts are vulnerable to theft if left outside. The only way to absolutely prevent someone from walking off with these things is to:

a)not have them in the first place

or

b) keep them in your sight at all times

Obviously, this can be impractical. I myself lock up outside on occassion if I absolutely have to. Inside is better, that's all I'm sayin'.

Well, of course I'm the only one with a key.. unique key configurations is kind of what the whole lock idea kind of depends on. Not only that but these keys are a one of a kind formation with something like 256 degrees of pin randomness due to the circular configuration. No two are alike.

Fine print: For the exception to this rule, see my recent posting about Kryptonite U-Locks

Also, if your bike is locked good enough that the only way someone can remove it is to destroy it, what use is it to them?

Parts? My components cost a good deal more than my frame does. I'm sure a lot of us are in the same boat on that issue.

'm just saying, locking skewers or no, wheels can be removed. I'm sure someone's figured out a way to get around them. I'm not picking on you, I'm just trying to make a case for not completely relying on what is ultimately a stopgap solution. Anyway, if you're really certain that locking skewers are unbeatable, fine. I hope your wheels don't get stolen. it's happened to me (in a nice residential area in massachusetts) and I wouldn't wish that annoyance/cost on anyone. but if they do get stolen, well, can't say I didn't warn ya. One of the problems with "unbeatable" security systems is that they engender a false sense of security which might make you more at risk of being a victim of theft. People who are overconfident that it won't happen to them tend to leave their bikes locked up outside for long periods of time, or always lock in the same place, etc, practically inviting theft. Don't let it happen to you.

How would a pair of multigrips go on the nuts? It's usually the ape-tool that beats the refined one. Nice touch, though.

I am sure there is some readily available office supply that would defeat those locks.

You've missed the point. You just keep assuming I think I've got the end all security system, when I'll be the first person to tell you there is no such thing. Do you think I'm planning on leaving my bike unattended in the middle of the ghetto for weeks on end challenging people to steal it? And why do you keep telling me all of this - isn't it terribly obvious I am already well familiar with the subject of bike theft (if not check out my post history or something)?

What I said about sawing the bike apart still stands - you would need to saw the hubs to get them free from the dropouts. You cannot put a multigrip around it (read my previous mention of this problem with the torx bolts), because they are dome shaped and there's really nothing for your wrench to grab hold of.

it's kind of funny that all this stuff that people used to think gave cyclists a competative advantage is turning out to be completly untrue. Like radial lacing, high flange hubs, smoking half a cig just before a big race to "open up the lungs". I guess thats the result of riding a machine that hasn't changed much in over 100 years. makes you wonder what else they'll decide is purely cosmetic. brakes? derailleurs? seat stays?

tim

I'd agree with you on the first two... for some reason I want my rear tire attached to the frame.

Because I'd hate for you to lose anymore parts. Bike theft is heartbreaking, especially when you've put as much time, effort, love, and even money into a bike you'd be proud to call your own. Just be careful.

Sayin'