So my fixie now is a Langster, sloping geometry. I want to get a more classic steel frame, leaning toward a SE Lager. I seem to be very confused on sizes though. My inseam using the book in the crotch trick is 32". My Langster, and my Tarmac, and my CAAD 8 are all 58cm frames. So get a 58cm right? Jenson lists the standover of a 58cm as 32.3", so I would have to tippy toe it. If I go to a 56cm it is 31.5", still a close call. Should I just deal with it? I mean I don't ride the thing standing over it, and I am guessing the lack of standover is due to lack of sloping top tube? Anyone with some advice here?

Don't go by standover alone. Compare all aspects of frame geometry and choose the one that matches most closely, starting with TT length. According to their geometry charts, the Lager has a 575mm top tube, where the Langster has 582, so the Lager will actually be a little tighter.

my inseam is about 33. I have a 56cm langster, and it is a little too big for me. 54 would work better. For my track bikes, 53 - 54 work best.

There is a lot more to bike fit than stand over. Your top tube is too long for you and you are putting too much weight on your arms.

Just one more reason why buying on line is a bit of a crap shoot. I can't tell without seeing you on the bike, but I'm guessing you would fit much better on a 54cm frame.

To be honest, I did what you did, and road frames that were too big for way too many years. The shop I bought my last bike from did a 15 minute fit, and now the bikes fit so, so much better.

Here is a calculation from a shop that tends to put people on large frames (typically 2cm larger than typical).

Frame size = PBH -25
32 * 2.54 - 25 = 56cm

A more normal frame for you would be a 54cm; the 56 would be the largest you should ride.

Yeah I know TT length is more important, I was just curious about the tall standover heights. I know I have shortish legs for my height, I guess that is factoring into the problem.

Your ideal frame is 54-56cm. If you have a long torso, go for the 56cm (same if you want a more "relaxed" bike). the 54cm would be a little more sporty.

To me, seat height is more important than standover height (as long as I don't hit anything standing!). Your seat height should be.

Your inseam is 61.5cm. So your seat height should be (61.5 - 10.5) 51cm (from center of the crank to the top of the saddle.) That with a 56cm top tube should get you pretty close to a decent fit.

The top tube is a pretty important measurement. you should be able to take your hands off of the dropouts and not fall into the handlebars. You should be able to squat on your two feet with your arms in front of you in the same position as you would be on the bike - without falling over.

Thanks, I'll have to do a little number crunching when I get home. I do have a long torso, so the 56 seems like it's gonna be the way to go.

From what I can tell, Leader frames tend to have longer TTs relative to ST lengths, so maybe that would be a good option for someone with short legs / long torso. I completely ignore standover when determining frame sizing. My only concern is the relative position of the three contact positions at my feet, butt and hands. These positions are determined by my riding position, which depends on the usage of my bike. I don't worry about what looks cool.