the principle at steak!!

oh yeah i once ordered a set of wheels from fairwheel bikes and they ended up giving me a different, better front hub without telling me. i was cool with it

http://www.westpointsteakhouse.com/y...215549_std.jpg
http://audreymagazine.com/wp-content...stion-mark.jpg

Yummm

(i swear i edited that before i hit post.)

Obviously cc was playing with words because he recognized the beef that OP and the said company is having.

wat

Early in the morning... :(

:lol:

CC, you're making me want to work to post longer posts with more useful content, especially when I disagree with you. Unfortunately I don't think I have quite the critical mind you do. But here it goes.

I learned, last year order lights for a Rave (yeah eat one) that if a seller has both an Ebay store, and a website to order from, use the Ebay store because Negative Feedback on Ebay allows you some recourse of action other then talking to your Bank/Credit Card Company about a charge back. I've looked over this Dbags site and I found his eBay account which does already have 1 negative feedback regarding a similar issue here where a customer received an Origin 8 Hub instead of a formula. Personally I'd rather avoid having the Origin 8 name on my bike if I could but thats just a minor quirk.
What bothers me here is the level of responsibility he is taking for shipping the incorrect product. I work for an eBay retailer with both an online store and an eBay store as well and I can't say we've never pulled a stunt similar to this. However in the cases we have if the customer is unhappy, we remedy the situation at no cost because it was our mistake, not the customers.

He did not inform you of the change, I did check his website and he does not have any policies regarding returns, refunds or handling of situations similar to this so really what he's doing is saying "I have your money, if you want it back you need to play by my rules" without ever saying what "my rules" are. Contact your bank or credit card company ASAP, don't mount the wheels. And do this, if you really want to stick it to him.

Get information regarding your buyer protection through the CC company. If they will cover your purchase then you are set. I've been on the other end of these charge backs and they are a PITA to deal with, the CC requests a lot of information and is very finicky with what they receive and how quickly they receive it. If he sent the order via international Priority he may have an even more difficult time just due to the crappy tracking it provides. So if they say

"You're covered, ship the wheels back with tracking and we'll perform a charge back"
You do the following
Box up old weinmans, slap some tracking on them suckers and send them back.
???
Profit.

There is a chance your CC company wont care about the difference, or even give him the option of saying "he sent back the wrong product!" I checked his site and it seems he uses Authorize.net, which is the same Credit Card Processor we use and its very likely he wont get the option and it will be a fiasco trying to handle the situation.

Or Option B. Which is don't be as dirty as I would be.
Send the Wheels back, get your money back and your CC Company will cover you for the costs of shipping. Most companies these days have very strong buyer protection policies, especially in cases where they do not receive what they ordered and the merchant refuses to handle the situation maturely. They have complete control over the money and they will likely just pull the funds out of his account (The funds you paid) and give them back.

I'm not going to argue the morals or ethics hard. What it comes down to is there were no details given regarding incorrect items on receipt, it is clear this seller has done it at least once before and I have a feeling this is a common practice for him. He knew you would have to pay out the arse to return them so he just sent them anyway. I don't say become the white light of justice correcting wrongs, but if you don't want the wheels, stand up for your self and your right as a consumer. People do a lot more to sellers over a lot less, again I know from personal experience. But this is a case in which your rights are getting shafted. If nothing else tell him you want a discount on the set because you did not receive what you ordered, otherwise you'll handle this through your card issuer.

Good luck man.

It's four spokes, man.

i mean, sure... you deserve to get the wheels you ordered, but shipping back some dp18's and getting your credit card company to strong arm him sounds like a quick way to draw this thing out for a month or two.

especially because your credit card company could go after you if you did that. but even if you got your cc company to do this and you shipped the open pros back properly and had the cc company do it right, they are doing international business and i'm not sure av here is imparting to you just how difficult they might make it.

this is throwing good money/time after bad.

it's four spokes, just deal with it unless you can't, in which case, yeah av's CC customer protection avenue is probably the right course of action. definitely better than my 'litigation' rec.

but really, four spokes man. get a magic eraser and takethe origin 8 logo off the hubs and then drop this whole thing.

Good post avner, but you could've included a picture of some sort of feline or flying rodent with clever one liner to really make a statement.

i second velomine. actually from the looks of this thread, im the third or fourth.
super good prices, incredibly good customer service. went out of their way to get a different toothed kog for a coaster brake wheelset i ordered and only charged me like 5 bucks more for another cog (i wanted both cogs)

4 spokes in each wheel translate to more unwanted weight that the OP did not order.

I'm sure a weight weenie roadie would not tolerate unwanted weight on his wheels but then, OP said he doesn't care about it.

I do agreed that OP should just suck it up and use those wheels and never ever buy from him again.

You know, I like to provide a "FUUUU" option as well as a legitimate option just for ****s and giggles. If you want to wear it, and you are more then welcome to wear it. Again check with your CC, not to try and undermine your CC, I enjoy reading your posts but each company will have a different process and if the wheels haven't been mounted I would at least inquire about the process. I would hate to have to wear it. What if you were a track racer and those 4 spokes on each wheel were really a big deal and this was going to be a nice upgrade for your race bike? I'm not the staunchest capitalist but I have a strong sense of integrity which is why I am all
http://files.sharenator.com/fuuu_Bus...-98509-580.png

Flying squirrel advice poster will be up as soon as I get to work with my photoshop comp :p

First, he uses the wrong spoke key.

http://bicyclewheels.com/images/truing.jpg

Then he uses the dish stick in the wrong direction.

http://bicyclewheels.com/images/dishing.jpg

alright that's it, i'm convinced.
Avner, you convinced me.

OP- time to get your money back. take it to CC customer care.

when they put you on hold to wait for a rep, play this

goodmorning lol
thank u

Those pics of that dude are solid gold.

tl;dr

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/li...hp?type=spokes

More like 7-8g PER SPOKE.

Edit:

I didn't have any problem when I ordered a wheelset from bicyclewheels.com two years ago. They arrived timely and everything was packed professionally. I probably won't order from them anymore or recommend them to anyone. It's ridiculous how Cesar is berating his customer when he was the one that sent the wrong product.

yeah, that makes way more sense.

a two gram spoke would be seriously sketchy. less its crabon

If i had to worry about shipping a wheelset out of the country i'd make doubly sure i got everything right.

I would argue he should still compensate for return shipping somehow. the reason for the return is an error on his part, not the OP's. I mean what happened here is functionally the same as ordering a white wheelset and getting green. Identical in function, but if I wanted white and got green, I would not expect having to pay anything more than the original price and the original shipping. I don't know why I would have to pay for shipping back when all I did was pick a product and give my money.

I think an easier course of action would have been to refund the apparent $40 margin he gives himself. Wouldn't be the exact product the OP wanted, but money talks, and the seller can just sweep this one under the rug and doesn't lose any money. I'm sure something like this could have been worked out, especially considering the distances involved.

I have to say, 4 spokes could be pretty significant... think the other way around. what if he wanted a nice set of 28 spoke wheels, and the seller sent him a 32? Or, from my experience (though I have given up on it), I wanted to find a gold 36 hold hub, but the ebay seller showed 32 hole...claimed they were 36, but wouldn't take a photo of them to prove it. I didn't end up buying it because of the customer service.

In the future, always try and contact the seller of online goods to get a personal response about the product if you are so concerned. It would greatly frustrate me if something completely different showed up and the seller knew about it, but you have to keep an open mind about it all. Know your ways around how to professionally deal with issues like this. Definitely contact your credit card and tell them what happened.

Let us know how it all unfolds. Especially if, for some reason you become satisfied with his service... I will say that, since you brought it up to the forums attention, a lot of people will be less likely to purchase from them, and definitely unlikely to recommend them in the future. Word of mouth spreads and negative feedback is a plague on small businesses. How he has handled the situation so far has been very poor, and again, thank you for bringing it up to our attention.

28Δ32>32Δ36

It doesn't matter if the wheels are better/worse/equal. there are plenty of reasons someone might want a specific drilling. fact is the dude sent him the wrong wheels without saying that's what was going to happen and was dismissive about it. Thanks for the warning OP, I'll not buy from that site.

yes we've been over this. i was stating that the fewer spokes you have, the larger difference 4 make.

best news i ordered a wheel set two weeks ago from this guy

he wont send me a tracking number, even two weeks later.

at this point, i'd rather have the wrong wheels

Lbs ftw.

I am said weight weenie road guy. On my SS, I ordered through spinlite cycling. I speced the rear wheel with:
Non-Drive - 1 cross, 14/17/14 Sapim Lasers, Alloy Sapim nipples
Drive-Side - 3 cross, 14/15/14 Sapim Race, Brass nipples

You know what I got? Exactly what I ordered.

I would be pissed like the OP. If I got say Sapim laser spokes over DT Champions then yeah I would have not cared... as its an actual upgrade. Extra spokes, when not needed are not an upgrade contrary to what the tool at BicycleWheels is saying.

EIther way, I won't buy from them. Consider this another potential customer lost (and I have looked at their products and I have spent about $6k this year on bike crap, mostly on the net).