I've spent about an hour looking over search results for threads on wheels in this forum and still have questions.

So far I've learned the following:

• Velomine is a good place to order from
• 32h seems to be a favored spoke setup
• Formula hubs are well liked. (are formula hubs better than dura ace hubs?)
• Using a front road wheel is lighter than front track wheel
• Aluminum nipples are weak

My goal is to find a set of wheels that are lighter than what I have currently:

Alex SUB Aero Profile Rim, 32H, Double Wall w/ CNC Sidewalls <-- I have no idea how much these weigh

Budget can be up to $400. I'm fairly lightweight (140lbs) and these wheels will be going on a non-commuter bike so I don't need heavy duty wheels that can take curb jumping or pothole pounding. So my criterias are:

1) under $400 for both wheels.
2) front and rear wheels don't need to be a matching set if it's true that using a front road wheel is lighter than a track wheel.
3) lightest possible (what is considered "lightweight" for a wheel anyways? under 500g/wheel?)


I found this set on velomine:
https://www.velomine.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=1098

^ Are the dura ace hubs better than formula hubs?
Should I get just a rear track wheel and find a different front road wheel?

Sigh, thats the EXACT wheelset that I want.

I don't know much, I'm pretty sure dura ace is 'better' than formulas. Though formulas are quite reliable and not bad in any way.

a well built wheel can last a long time, especially when built for the right purpose. building yourself wheels allows more options in terms of spoke count, mismatch hubs for weight, and crossings - especially because most lightweight clincher rims available to the public are laced to road hubs, and most track hubs are laced to pink vee's.

-velomine is good. forget this route if you want light weight, they sell dp18's and deep v's, all well over 550g/rim. even though the open pro/dura ace hubs are 350, you can do better for less (probably not in terms of hubs, but weight). velomine uses heavy straight gauge spokes, and thats not the lightest thing either.
-32h is no frills, especially when laced 3x. not particularly necissary unless you have heavy/ride aggressively/have bad roads. lower spoke counts does not really lower weight by a lot, its more aero but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages in most situations... 3x is the way to go, front and back, honestly. radial will not save you weight, might gain you some aero, but potholes will make you rushing to the lbs for a spoke tensioner.
-formula hubs are liked for their price, not weight or anything else besides sealed bearings obviously. i used to run dura ace lf hubs, i felt no difference, but if you like them and dont mind the price go for it, though they are no lightweights either as they too use solid axles.
-front road wheels are only used because of the skewer, rather than most fixed gear's solid axles. usually cheaper due to high availablility, but if you build your own wheels why not have a matching set, right?
-aluminum nipples are not weak as in they break, but they require frequent tensioning and are not worth the weight over brass nipples imo - also depends on the frequency of your rides/how you ride/where you ride

your wheels probably weigh around 22-2400 grams, judging by the depth/hubs. they should be strong though, im assuming theyre from a kilo tt pro/dawes sstal? i would consider getting wabi cycles prebuilt wheels, richard told me hes not going to have them at 150 for much longer - they are 1750g including the lockring, rim tape, and track bolts. thats pretty damn good, and at that price are a complete steal.

for under 400;
-kinlin 28h xr200 (390g)
-novatec road hub front (76g)
-dtswiss competition spokes, laced 3x

-kinlin 28h xr200
-novatec skewer rear hub (~250g, but no solid axle)
-dtswiss competition, 3x

should be around 1400 or so for the set, or 1550 for xr300s if you want a deeper profile. in fact that wheelbuild should cost you no more than 250, as kinlin rims are readily available on ebay for 40$/rim. stand + tm1 + spoke wrench may add up or you can use your fork/have lbs build it for you.

i forgot what else i should be answering. but ask away/tell me if i missed something. you can do the road front/track back, but good luck finding just a rear track wheel + a lightweight road front for a good price. build your own.

What hubs should I get then if both formula and dura ace hubs are not exactly lightweight and could keep me under the price range? My current wheels are on a dawes sstal. They seem fine but the entire bike weighs about 20lbs. I'd like to reduce rotating mass first. So using a front road wheel isn't going to be any lighter?

You mentioned Wabi cycles' wheels. Are you referring to this?
https://www.wabicycles.com/GXwheels.html

I haven't heard of the Jalco brand nor Joy Tech hubs before. (I'll do a search for these on the board after posting this. They come out to about 4lbs for the set versus the guestimated 5lbs for my stock set. The custom set you describe is about 3lbs total which sounds even better. If I go the 3lb setup you describe, is there a well reviewed online vendor/builder that could put that together for me for a good price?

while they are the heaviest, you'd be hard pressed to find a track hub 100grams less without say, an AM Classic hub which is at least 100 dollars more. the formulas are still your best bet to keep the prices down, but i was just mentioning dura ace hubs have no real weight savings over formulas and performance gain is minimal (unnoticeable to me). to each his own.

yes, that was what i was referring to. jalco rims/joytech hubs arent the best names in the world like mavic and dura ace but supposedly they work well. i would go this route, so much easier and cheaper - these guys know what they are doing, and plus, they are already tensioned and laced in a favorable fashion. not the prettiest though...

prowheelbuilder, ird cadence is the same as xr200, ird cadence aero is the same as xr300, but they wont have the exact hubs i was mentioning; all city track hubs are similar if not pretty much the same to formulas, velocity front road hub is a little heavier than a novatec, etc but itll still be a sub 1500g wheelset.

The velomine wheels you are proposing to buy are really only a mediocre wheel, primarily because they use straight gauge heavy spokes. They are also unneccessarily expensive because they use Dura Ace hubs and Mavic OP rims. The OP rim was once considered the gold standard of rims. Its a good rim, but has not been changed in many years, is expensive because its from France, and has now been surpassed by other rims that cost less (e.g. Kinlin). Dura Ace hubs are high quality hubs meant for track racing but are completely unnecessary on the street. A cheaper formula or novatec hub will work just as well and is more appropriate for the street because the bearings are sealed.

If you are not interested in buidling your own, I suggest you get these...https://www.bdopcycling.com/Wheels-FGSS.asp#FORCE. They are lighter, cheaper, stronger, and more aero than the velomine wheels you are proposing to buy. A far superior wheelset.

Otherwise, I would build your own, using a Novatec rear hub, a Novatec front road hub, using butted spokes, 20-28 (radial or 1x) on the front, 24-32 (2x-3x) in the rear, brass nipples, and Kinlin XR rim or your choice. A shallower rim will be lighter, and a deeper rim will weigh a bit more but produce a more aero, stronger, stiffer wheel. You can use fewer spokes on a deeper rim and still have a very strong wheel. Order the hubs, spokes, and nipples from bdopcycling.com and get the rims from ebay or https://fairwheelbikes.com/rims-c-24.html. Total cost for the parts, including shipping should beunder $300 and you will end up with a wheelset that weighs around 1500 gm (give or take, depending of rims and spoke count) and is far far better than any prebuilt you can buy for anywhere near that amount of money.

so a while back i replaced the stock front bianchi pisa wheel (bianchi hubs, alex solo, 28h) with a shimano 6600 road front wheel. total weight difference was 80 grams (including track nuts, road skewers).

anyway, i think you can build up some decently lightweight wheels using the novatech hubs, kinlin rims, and some nice spokes. i would not go less than 28h (3x) in the rear, though.

I bought a light road wheelset from odds & endos a few years ago. Still using the front wheel on my latest fg conversion. The front is a specific hub with velocity aerohead rim and dt Swiss spokes, 28 radial. It's one of the lightest wheels I have, i've had to true it only once over the last 6 years - I'm 150 lbs. It seems to flex when I lean the bike over in a track stand (rubs on brake), don't think it's the CroMo fork on my pista. have to build a new rear w a FG hub and matching aerohead rim.

2x for 28h, especially with a high flange hub and/or deep rim.

I never miss an opportunity to show off my own handbuilt lightweight wheelset:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...eight+wheelset

And the final product:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ne!&highlight=

With your weight of 140lbs, and you say you won't be jumping curbs or anything, I wouldn't get more than 28 rear 24 front. You could easily go to 24 rear and 20 front. With kinlin xr-270 rims and good spokes you would have a plenty strong wheel set.

I would avoid the dura ace hubs. It's an unneeded cost and the loose ball bearings can be an unwanted hassle for somebody with no experience. Formula rear hub is fine. If your goal is to cut weight in the front, hub is the least important part (closest to the center of rotation), and will cost a lot more money.
standard road hub - $17 - 146g
white industries bling - $100 - 94g
American Classic lightlightlight - $124 - 58g

Mavic Open Pro or Velocity Aero for rims.