Okay, I've re-checked my arm, apparently I added about an extra 1inch to 1.5 inch and that threw it off, but everything else is the same, if not within .2 inches or so.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=305429

But I'll probably try to match up all the numbers but with the toptube height being the one size i pay the most attention to.

Thanks for everyones help

I say get a 48.5, and get a longer stem.

I totally disagree. According to his calculations, his 'competitive' and 'Eddy' fits both show a top tube measuring 54.9-55.3cm.

Why buy a frame that's too small and use a longer stem when you can just buy the right size to begin with?

Mad aggy drop and wicked aero tuck?

So would a 51cm 725 fit me fine? it has the closet numbers to what the bike fit says. The top tube is just right and everything else seems fine. And comparing the Kilo tt to the Leader, on BD it says that the 47cm Kilo is an equivilent to a 50cm bike so the 51 probably would be best.

And sorry for being such a noob at technical terms but what does "mad aggy drop and wicket aero tuck" look like?

Riding a smaller frame tends to increase your amount of saddle to bar drop, giving you mad aggy drop and putting you in a wicked aero tucked position while you ride. It looks hella rad and dope, but it's usually very uncomfortable (and sometimes unsafe) too.

Ahhhhh so that what it is . I cant even think of going more than having my body parallel to the ground since once i lean forward that much i normally start kneeing myself in the stomach though it feels like I'm going faster and probably look more "aero dynamic" lol

Okay last question! Should I get a 735? or a 725? Coghouse has both for about the same price, but someones already bidded on the 735.
Only difference is that the 735 is 53 and the 725 is 51

Considering you have yet to determine what size you should get, I think that should come first and foremost.

Im curious as to what the C-C sizing would be, on the fit calculator it fitted me at 46.9-47.4. I'm not sure what to look at on the leader chart, but I'm leaning now towards the 53 since the toptube is 55, and i averaged the values the calculator gave me and it came to be 55.1 so that would be perfect, and although i know you guys said standover isnt important, but the standover is 29.13 inches which is fine for me since i measured my standover without shoes.

Reading is hard. I saw a 53 instead of a 54.

Wowe wowe wowe Kite991. A couple things you need to be keeping in mind. Firstly, you should probably decide on whether you're guying to trust the new fit calculator measurements or trust how you fit on your size 47 kilo tt. Your Kilo TT size 47 has a top tube of 513. On the other hand, your fit calculator puts you in the range of 540-550ish or 560 on the longer side. 513 vs. even 540 seems to me to be a huuuuge difference, don't you think? You may have just got the wrong size Kilo TT (but only you know that in the end). If it does fit you perfectly, and you're going by your kilo tt sizing, you should be on a 46 Leader 725. If you're going by your new fit calculator measurements you should be on either a 51 or maybe a 53. Secondly, BD saying that 47 is equivalent to a 50cm bike means pretty much nothing especially when it comes to leaders. As I said yesterday, the leader 721/725/735 have quite long top tubes for their labelled size. A 'normal' (if there is even such a thing) size 51 frame would have a shorter top tube than Leader 721/725/735 size 51. Don't make your decision governed by the size labels of the bike; look at the actual geometry of the frame.

Sorry about that, I know that I've been asking a lot of questions about which size, and going from a kilo to a leader. But in the end I might go with what the fit calculator gave me, after riding today and trying to get comfortable i found that even with my 110mm stem, I feel that a more comfortable position for me is a few centimeters forward more and relaxes my back rather than having it bent and uncomfortable. I probably did end up with an improper size on the kilo. But as of now I'm trying to bid on a 735, but if the price goes any higher I may back out and just get a 725. Although I'd be getting the 735 for under 300 (pre-tax) with free shipping....

'

The discomfort you are referring to makes it even more certain that you didn't need to go so small on the kilo. However, the good thing is you possibly can still go up on the stem size to rectify that. As for the Leader, and Nagrom and everyone else, feel free to correct me, I feel that the 53 might be ideal, but you could still do fine with the 51 but have a bit of a longer stem than your fit measurement would suggest. So, maybe the 725 size 51 with a 110/120 stem may work, and you could also go with a setback seatpost to gain a little bit of length as well. Also, the choice between 51 and 53 may just come down to your personal preference of whether you prefer a smaller frame with more noticeable stem and seatpost. I know it can get frustrating trying to choose the right size, especially if you're bidding between a couple of frames, but I'm sure you'll be happy with either of those sizes/frames.

47 is usually the last size they sell out of, so he bought it.

Thank you for your help, right now its a 53cm 735, and although i do like my seat post to be high up cause i think it looks pretty cool, i think a 53 is fine. But if this guy whos bidding against me goes any higher ill just get the 51 725 that has no bid.

Doing it wrong.

Its not too high up, its reasonable, i just dont want my seatpost slammed all the way down to the frame. my seats only 7inches above the frame. I wouldnt put it higher or else it'd totally mess up my back and look ridiculous.

But maybe 7 inches is a little high?

Good luck with the bidding kite991! Keeping my fingers crossed you get the bike you're looking for.

Thanks, though I'd love (and be completely estatic) if i managed to get the 735, but the 725 is just as nice, I dont see major differences between the 2 other than probably unseen performance (weight?, quality?, etc?). Right now I'll be happy getting a leader bike, I always liked the frame design but was on edge because of the bad reviews that people get, but, its like that with everything. So i'm biting the bullet and getting a leader to build up slowly

Proper saddle height depends on how long your legs are, not how far the saddle is from the frame.

But you have to have exactly six inches of seatpost showing or your bike doesn't fit.

The "bad reviews" of Leader's frames usually come from people who had a bad experience with one back in 2005 and haven't even looked at (let alone ridden) a Leader since. It's all bull****.

So you know, while the geo of the 725 and 735 is exactly the same, the 735 - in addition to having a much wider downtube - also has wider, flatter seatstays/chainstays and the dowtube's walls aren't quite as thick. While that does manage to shave off a little weight (the 735 actually weighs less than the 725), the 725 is more durable and not prone to dents.

This feels like an appropriate place to ask. How durable is the matte paint on a Leader? To me matte paints always feels fragile compared to gloss paint, dono why.

Well on cars matte paint always sucks. Can't wax/buff out scratches, touch up paint always looks like **** (****tier than normal touch up, which already looks like ****). I have no experience with Leader's matte, but if no one else can do it right, I don't know why they would be able to.