I'm very new to bike riding and since I hastily bought my used Kilo TT 2 months ago, I've already basically upgraded nearly every ****ty component from her. Some parts were necessary, others were just preference.

I am about 5'10 and I'm riding a 52 cm. I know, it's way small, but in the heat of the moment, I bought the bike and after damned near riding it every day since I've gotten it, I am starting to hurt from being in such a cramped position.

This is where I need some advice. From my own research, I've been looking around at Schwinn madisons, Soma Rushs, Pakes and Masis. Probably thinking about getting frame about 54-56. Just about all I know about these bikes are their price ranges and choice of colors (lol )

Aesthetically, I really prefer the Masi over the rest. Pake is definitely attractive due to it's price and frankly, I would deal the 175 to Scrod just so I can have a comfortable bike to ride. My problem is that I don't really dig any of the colors available not that it's the most important thing in making my decision. I just want comfort and solidity over anything. As far as the Rush and Madison, they seem to be reliable and decently built.

I admit that I probably made a poor decision financially when it came to buying the bike. I spent a lot more money than I would have if I had just saved up and bought each component separately. However, the time I did spend experiencing and learning how to build it up and feel the ride is much more valuable to me.

I don't know a lot about frame shopping and geometry, which is why I made this thread so I hope somebody can help me out with my decision. I am in no particular rush with this because right now I just want to make a good purchase on a frame that I can use for commuting, cruising, exercise and enjoying. Something that will hopefully last me a good while.

steamroller, rush, mark v, angus, wabi classic, sputnik

by the way, since you are 5' 10'' you should be looking at frames in the 57-60cm range (depending on the specific geometries).

I have a 59cm Soma rush that I think is too small for me (I'm 6' 2'') if you are interested. I'm selling it for cheap.

Do you want steel? You could splurge for a Leader 722 or even Scrod's 2011 725's on sale...

edit: Looks like Retrogression no longer has the discounted 725's available. You could get a 721 though.

new lo pro's will be on affinity's site by monday...

I wouldn't recommend a lo pro as the geometry is really steep and uncomfortable. Also, depending on your size, you could end up with considerable toe-overlap.

There are better frames out there for the price and with better steel.

have you ridden one? they arent that steep. mine wasnt that bad. i never had a toe overlap "problem"

I have ridden one, although it was a 55cm and that's too small for me. Regardless, the toe-overlap was bad at that size.

59 might be a bit big for me, but thank you for the offer anyways man

Yes, I'm actually looking for a steel frame. I've thought about the leader 722 and would definitely go that direction. The raw looks hot and my friends leader rides smooth and solid. Only thing really stopping me is that a half of my biking buddies have leaders and I feel like looking for a different frame. Hell why not right?

I forgot about the wabi classic though, and I'm strongly considering that one now. Hopefully one of the frames everybody mentioned will pop up on craigslist in my size .

I haven't made a concrete decision yet, but I'd better start saving anyways.

For sure, but don't make the mistake I did and get a bike that is smaller than you need. In my one-year experience with my Mark V, I have come to hate the the extreme saddle to bar drop.

The best bike ride is the one that is most comfortable. The more comfortable you are the faster and longer you can ride. I'd rather err on going large than small if I'm between a couple sizes.

I agree with you on that. I won't throw your offer out the window, however. Do you mind showing me some pictures of it and maybe a quote for your asking price?

I compared the geometries just now between my current setup which I mentioned earlier is 52cm. The top tube is about 540mm, which is cramped cramped cramped. It makes my shoulders feel stained as well as numb my elbows and hands from the pressure. My arms are just kind of long I guess. It looks like the top tube length of the 59 Rush is 575 which would be a size 57 kilo.


If that doesn't work out, though, I researched the Wabi Classic and I am really really attracted to it. Going the direction of the Wabi would mean I'd have to save some big bucks, but for a wabi I'm ok with that.

I checked out a Langster steel frame recently and it looked pretty nice. You've got a lot of options if steel track bikes in your size is as specific as you can get though :/

Wabi is definitely a good way to go. If I were to go that route I would get the frameset and then buy the parts that I wanted.

Not that the Wabi complete build has bad parts, it's just that I'd find myself swapping out most of them to get the right feel and fit.

I'll pm pictures of my Rush. Top-tube is the best way to size a bike.

haha :\ indeed. I'm not going to be too picky though. All I really want is to have something comfortable enough to use on a commute that won't kill my elbows, shoulders and hands lol. A friend of mine has a special edition langster in 56 and it's pretty sweet. Haven't ridden it yet because when we ride together his seatpost is stupid high and I get lazy to ask if I can test it out. I think it might be a touch small for him too.

Cool. I'm definitely planning to just swap out the components on the bike I've got now. All I'd need would be a seat post and maybe a new stem which won't be too bad.

+1 on the wabi. Definitely a lighter frame and better steel material than the kilo. I had a classic before I got my custom Matthews. The road-like geo suited me well, but IMHO it did feel a little sluggish. Then again I had a 52cm which has a HA of 72 degrees. If you're looking at a 57cm TT length, the 73.5 degrees HA would decrease the trail, making the bike more responsive.

Nice! By the way, was your wabi the one on pedalroom with the trispoke? That thing looked filthy!! Also, good advice on the angle. I think 57 would work out really well. I would definitely prefer less trail.

57 is too big. I wouldn't go bigger than a 55 at your height, unless you have very long legs and very long torso (= very small head, haha)
the wabi has some very road bike ish geometry, which is alright if that's your thing - it depends whether you tell people you ride "track" bikes or "fixed gears"
personally i like track bikes, though this page is another testament to the quality of wabis
if i were you, i'd save up and buy whatever bike you want (fuji track, felt t1, trek, cinelli, etc quality aluminum shiot)
then get a longer stem and move your seat back on the rails on your kilo and use it as a junker/ bar bike
because if you just got another budget steel frame you might want to upgrade again in a year or so

The Wabi has never really been a budget steel frame at Reynolds 631, but it looks like they just upgraded the Classic to Reynolds 725, which puts the frame at even "better" steel.
And as far as road geometry, he is riding the bike on the road after all o.O

Hahah yes, that was my wabi, thanks! Yeah, when i plugged in the data into a trail calculator it, the trail difference between the 52cm and 57 is roughly 5mm. The 57mm wabi also has a 6mm trail less than the 53cm kilo you're riding now.

From what I recall, the wabi was always Reynolds 725? I got mine roughly 2 years ago.

That's actually a good idea. After sizing myself up, and actually properly fitting myself to the Kilo today using one of those calculators, i found that getting a new stem would be the cheapest alternative. I had to raise my seat-post about an inch higher, but I still need some space from the seat to the bar.

I also decided that getting a 55 cm wabi frame would be best. I would totally save up for a dream bike, just not now. My main concern is being able to have a comfortable bike to commute in and the road geometry doesn't bother me that much since I'll only really be trying to get places. The Wabi seems like it would work out perfectly.
I'll miss the kilos more track style and aggressive form, but it's really not practical as far as long distance comfort goes. When the school semester starts, I'll have to deal with the soreness that my neck gets from craning my head upwards on the Kilo.
One thing I do really enjoy with the Kilo's geometry is how it feels when picking up speed. I dig how solid it is while accelerating to higher speeds. I don't have any experience with road bikes, so I really can't compare what the ride feels like.

^tons of people ride track bikes in the road and prefer it, o.O
doesn't mean "road geometry" is any better for street riding
and yeah, didn't mean to say wabi wasn't great steel for a great price... it definitely is

Oh of course. I ride a leader which has semi-steep angles and love it. Just saying people in here act like road geometry is the devil but I don't think I've ever heard too much complaint from the 20x larger roadie population that their bikes are too sluggish because of their head tube angle is 2˚ too slack.

And based on this guys calculations, if memory serves correctly that is the difference between 20psi or so. So riding with a little more tire pressure would give the same trail.

I wonder if Richard Snook will trade me a Wabi Classic for a painting

Use a fit calculator to figure out your bike size. I'm 5'11 and I ride a 54cm (50cm Kilo, which is 53 c-t). It's hard to judge fit by height alone.

Toe overlap will be hard to avoid with track geometry, so just get used to it.

If your wrists/arms/shoulders are hurting, your fitment must be way off. AFAIK there shouldn't be much weight on your arms really.