*Le wild VISP appears!

Private seller in my area. I can get the frame for under $200. Can't really beat it for my first build. I was also looking at the 722TS from a legit dealer, but after shipping and taxes, it will be close to $100 more. Actually sent Leader a sizing question yesterday! Completely different bikes...I'm still debating...

jeez everyone. it's not much money. if you can't afford the 100 dollars for the frame you want, you probably can't afford to build it up well either, which means you'll have a great frame riding on total crap which makes for a bike that is total crap. thus, kilo tt.

what is this world coming to... people making fake leaders... i feel like that's akin to someone making a fake daewoo.
DO NOT CLICK THIS LINK IT IS VULGAR AND OFFENSIVE

I cannot find the part from the Jimmy Fallon/ Queen Latifah movie Taxi where she makes fun of his Daewoo. Imagine that clip is here.

I like one frame just as much as the other, and no, $100 isn't much money. But, that $100 could be half the cost of say...a crankset. And just because one tries to save some money, doesn't mean he's going to build a crap bike. My main concern either way is buying a fake bike. I don't know about anyone else, but of I can get the same product for a few bills less, balling or broke...I'm going to save some money!

how do you know it's the same product?

i know the kilo tt is the same as a flite 100 because other people have both and you can compare them directly.

do you know anyone with a fake, bottle bossed leader?

FWIW, Ebay has some VISP frames and even some frames that look to be VISP without the sticker/logo on them. I'm inclined to agree with others and say the frame is not genuine and authentic.

on the other hand,

sounds like a vast majority of leader builds.

no matter how much kilo tt guys keep repeating this it is still not factually correct. it is not the exact same frame as a flite 100, only rebranded, as is often claimed around here.

sure, the frame may be made in the same factory with the same geo & possibly even the same materials. but we have seen many posts in this forum about uneven or misaligned rear triangles & also fork oddities too. we have also seen posts stating that one can not be certain how big of tires may or may not fit on any given kilo tt because of the possible frame/fork differences between them.

what do you think is the reason for this? well, kilos are not exactly the same as flite 100s because they are not constructed under the same quality control standards. khs demands (& pays for) a higher quality assurance level on their frames than bikedirect does. which is understandable since bd needs to keep their prices down.

please do not take this to mean that i am saying that a kilo tt is not very similar to flite 100 or a good value for its low price...but to tell anyone it is the same bike (or frame) is a misstatement.

This.

Made in the same factory ≠ same quality. QC standards matter.

well, my kilo wasn't misaligned and to pretend that it's somehow lower quality just because it didn't pass through khs qc is kind of laughable. there will be more duds but that's it. the point remains that if the tubing is different or PRODUCTION is different, you have more to worry about than just quality control. water bottle bosses and weird tube shapes denote both.

That's still not an actual photo. Those are on Alibaba.com. The orange numbers are a dead giveaway. I'm trying to find the link to the seller.

Found it: You can tell by looking at the backdrop and lighting in the photo it's the same seller. Funny though, they changed their name since I last scoured Ali, I wonder why?.

https://chinabicycleparts.en.alibaba....der_735Tr.html

A little info about sales from China. American copyright laws don't apply to most imported sales until they are actually sold in the US as counterfeits. Chinese sweatshops and factories can sell an item as a Leader with no legal implications, however someone cannot legally buy it from a Chinese supplier and sell it in the US as a Leader. This is why this frame is marked 735 Leader on the seller's site even though it's not a Leader.

Iit's a fake and you'd probably have better luck with a frame from Cycoole on Ebay (Visp), Red2bicycle or Amazon.com through Cycling Deal. It's a waste of money to buy it form this seedy guy. At the same time Leader's go on sale pretty often, just save up and buy it if that's what you really want.

You'd be better off getting one of those leader knockoffs from amazon.com. At least you can buy from Cycling Deal with some reviews to back up the frame.

Here, 150.00 shipped with a fork and seatpost.

https://www.amazon.com/Track-Fixie-Ro...2870447&sr=8-3

Looking back at the dates though you probably already bought it right?. Seems I'm late to the party again.

The frames posted above are just unbranded Visps. While still being "Leader knockoffs", at least people kinda know what they are. Those other frames are a complete mystery. But hey, it's your money.

TejanoTrackie has a VISP or had one that seemed to work out & ride just fine ? That frame style just seems to scream "steal me" regardless of authentic/genuine frame. Put the higher end components on them and you won't want to leave it locked up anywhere for long even.

yes but you're out 150 for the amazon visp vs. 500 or so for a leader if it does get stolen.

i loved my visp and i kind of want another just to leave locked up places. it's so heavy you don't have to worry terribly about frame dents and so compliant it's actually super comfy to ride.

The VISP's look good enough and $ 150 isn't inexpensive for a frame by any means, with the right wheels and other components bb, crank arms, saddle, brakes and so on, a $ 150 VISP frame turns into $ 400-500 just the same ? I've thought about swapping frames with the Vilano, but my Vilano is fine for what I use it for just the same, so it stays as a trusty daily rider. The Vilano was $ 259 delivered, another $ 80-90 for upgrades & adjustments and at $ 340-350, I'd be more than just disappointed to find it was stolen. That's a big enough hit on my bank account to have to figure out how to get home, then replace it.

the production of fakes is a bummer for leader, but everyones got to deal with them. they definitely are especially hurt because their business model is highly dependent on budget internet orders.

did you really mean to say 150 isn't inexpensive for a frame?

you may live on a super tight budget and 150 isn't nothing... it's 150 dollars.

but 150 is about the least amount of money ANY cyclist would spend on a bike frame that they ride more than, say, 5 miles a week. there are a much larger number of people that wouldn't ride a frame that costs less than 750.

I indicated I'd pay only $ 259 for a brand new bike in total and the extra money was for wheel truing and replacing/upgrading components that I expect to get years out of. When I see articles on line that Chinese labor is worked like slaves and the hours and wages they get to make an iPhone is about 70 cents an hour, why would anyone pay as much as they do for a frame from China ? $ 150 has an insane profit margin built into it ? So if the global competition thing has prices rolled back to the 60's & 70's for manufacturers, yeah, I feel $ 150 is quite a bit of money, especially as the economy goes for everything else. Reason we're paying $ 4/gallon for gasoline, too many middle men driving the price up and not doing anything but driving the cost up, there's zero value added. They'd have you believe there is no easy oil being extracted, yet they want a new pipeline, US production of oil has never been higher. Some/Everybody is lying about the price of anything in this world. $ 750 for a bike frame ? Too funny. A department store bike from Wal-Mart will last you a lifetime if you take care of it and isn't any real tangible step down from a more expensive bike. You have to pedal it just the same. Sorry to go off on a tangent.

tl;dr

150 dollars will get you a bike out of one of these things:


Accept that. Regardless of your political agenda, the bike isn't expensive.

then it looks like you overspent on your vilano...you should have gotten thrusted at wallyworld, heard they are on sale for $79 now