Frames
 

If you were building a mileage-based setup, which frame would you go for?

Surly Steamroller
Bareknuckle


Remember, this isn't about short sprints or velodrome riding, this is about putting in 50-150 milers on a bike designed exclusively around being a 48x15 roadworthy pig.

I own a steamroller and I really think I could ride it as far as I needed to without any pain or problems. I never rode a bk so I can't comment on that frame but I only my Surly. Most comfortable bike i've ever ridden i'll never sell it.

Yeah, I traded a black BK I had earlier this year because it wasn't the right size for me. I am trying to come up with a good "travel" bike that I can put miles on and still have fun. I have the Handsome Devil which is tits, but I want something that is A. designed for fixed-gear (trackdrops) and B. Not such an aggressive geometry that I can't carry around 30 lbs. in my bags.

The Bareknuckle is the opposite of what you want, but I'd choose it every time over the Steamroller.

This.

Any bike that fits you well should be fine, I was trying to figure the same thing last year and my options were the Steamroller and the All-City Big Block.
I went for the Big Block based on the geometry, Surly's head tube seemed a tad short for my liking.

Possibly the new Wabi Lightning?

http://www.wabicycles.com/Lightning-SE-offer.html

I don't always post in your thread, but when I do I ask irrelevant questions.

Do those chain tensioners actually do anything on your devil?

I'm assuming they help tension the chain.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...g-me-clean.png

I've never seen them run on a bike with forward facing dropouts. I suppose my question should have been, do you feel they were a worthwhile purchase for your bike and would you recommend them to others?

I'd go with the Steamroller because it's essentially the same geometry, cost & quality are similar & is name brand.

lots of steel road bikes have integrated screws that help you center the wheel and have a set position in the drop out.

I know. But he's running what look like some type of MKS-style Chain Tensioner (similar to this). It can be seen in this picture:

http://www.pedalroom.com/p/handsome-...vil-4457_2.jpg

I've just never seen anyone use those with that style dropout and was curious if he found an advantage to doing so.

What?

steep vs relaxed
$700 vs $420
dedacciai COM 12.5 cromo vs "surly" 4130 cromo
italian made vs taiwainese made

EAI carries a higher prestige than Surly, not sure what you're on about.

ah, I misunderstood your question

doesnt that tensioner fit between the frame and the axel and a lip pulls on the back of the dropout to tension the chain? Could still work just fine.
Pulled a wheel a few time on my Surly cross-check after some hasty flat changes so i can see how it may help.

I'm just saying for the money, save the $ 280 on the frame and put that into components. After riding it 50+ miles the prestige of the frame wears off after the first mile(s) ? Ride is going to be contingent upon the seat, handle bars & grips, tires and air pressure, also how smooth the road is. They just paved the street with new asphalt after grading it down to dirt in front of my place, even a hi-ten wal-mart frame rides sweet on that.

By prestige I meant better reputation, not ride quality(?). I was just pointing out how you said Surly was a household name (implying good quality). EAI actually makes higher quality products than compared to Surly. An Eddy Merckx or Serotta could be ridden thousands of miles and it damn sure will be more prestigious than someone's new Kilo TT.

This is just silly. They are two entirely different frames and you've never ridden either one.

A degree here and a centimeter there make quite a bit of difference.

So do materials.

And finish.

Unless you mean to tell me I should ditch my TET and keep my Kilo TT since they have essentially the same geometry, are both steel and Mercier is actually a more well-known brand.

$420 for a Steamroller?


More like $369.
http://store.citygrounds.com/store/p...et-Meth-Teeth/

I just did a quick google search. Either way cost is not "similar"
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...ose_enough.png

Just trying to understand this a bit. If you're not looking for a short sprint or short fast use then why choose something that has that geometry? Or low slung track bars?

Why not something more road oriented? You won't need a high BB, real short cranks, fast whippy handling, cramped cockpit, but could appreciate a road geometry even if its "race" oriented road.

I havent compared the geometry charts but thats the first thing in my mind.

Have you fit this particular fellow's body ? Maybe the few degrees or millimeters on any of the dimensions and the Surly is more comfortable for him ? People come in all shapes and sizes. I mean we're talking about an inseam, body torso length, even arm length that varies. And tell me 50-150 mile ride that anyone is going to know the difference on 48/15 gearing ? I mean this is a long trip rider for 50-150 miles, it's not a few hundred or even kilo meter race on a velodrome or even on a rural paved street. I know Retrogression sells the EAI's, but what about the Dodeci Gara, Leader X Pedal Consumption or even a Toyo Godzilla at about the same price to + $ 100 more than a Bareknuckle. I guess you don't sell the Surly, so you're SOL on that sale. But I bet he might not be all that disappointed in the All City for about what he puts into a Surly frame ? Go one further, Bianchi super pista frame runs what and/or plus what the EAI's do too, depending upon where you shop ? All else being equal components wise and he can put a heck of a more comfortable seat under his butt and what is that worth ? Is it the difference in the frame pricing ? Most anything that is transportation is a system of the whole rather than just the frame. I know that you are very knowledgable and I respect that to a certain extent, but with all due respect what level rider is this fellow, maybe his legs and back are going to be screaming for mercy on any of them after riding those distances ?

BTW, my bad on the cost, the Surly is a bargain in comparison. I posted that too hastily without proofreading. I stand though, that for value quality and intangibles, the Surly is still what I'd purchase of the two and then I'd put better components on the Surly and come up with a total sum of parts ride that would be preferrable to sinking all my money into a frame that has no suspension. I mean fatter 700c tires are going to offset any perception that one frame rides better than the other. I'd rather ride a touring/road geared bike that distance over a SS/FG track bike and "thenomad" comes out and suggests that in his post.

I've put some miles on both frames.

I'd definitely go with the bareknuckle. I absolutely couldn't stand the surly and sold it. I can definitely do a hundred miles on a bareknuckle, but that is just my own preference.

Just my opinion, and I haven't ridden either, but for longer distances I would usually opt for the most comfortable geometries. Now, that's not saying what is comfortable for me is comfortable for you. In general, a more relaxed geo is more comfortable for longer hauls. Looking at the two frames in topic, and at 58-ish sizes, the seat tube angles are similar and not too steep at 73.5 (BN)/73 (SR) degrees. The head tube angles are a degree different at 75 degree for the BN and 74 degree for the SR. (Of course wheelbase length has a factor in ride quality too but I don't know the length for the BN - the SR is )

Having said that, I also want to add that when I was shopping for my first dedicated single speed, I was concerned about more agressive frame geos. My only intent was to ride on the road for 1 to 2 hour rides. Because of this I wanted a more relaxed frame. My single speed conversion road bike has a 73 degree seat tube and a 73.5 degree head tube, which I wanted to try to stay close to when finding the dedicated single speed. The bike I ended up getting was a Madison due to the sale they had on them, and among other reasons. This bike has a 74.5/74 head/seat tube angles which concerned me about longer rides. I figured if it wasn't comfortable, it would just be a short distance/errand bike. Turns out that I have been on this bike for 2 hour rides with no complaints whatsover.

I think in the case of the one degree differences between the BN and SR may not concern you in the ride distances of them. You can always make up the degree or so in component fit setup, i.e. bar stem height/reach and saddle fore/aft.

Umm, no. And riding 48x15 on fat tires is going to suck regardless.

The Gara, Kagero, and Super Pista are aluminum. Aluminum is seen as more fragile compared to steel. The Godzilla to my knowledge is made from really thin keirin-esque tubing. Attributes that do not correlate well with the OP's intended use of the bike he'll be building.

Everyone and their mom knows the Steamroller has the more compliant ride due to it's relaxed geometry. No one said the Bareknuckle was going to be more comfortable. That said, it doesn't mean the BK won't "feel" better. My analogy is comparing the driving feel of a luxury sedan vs a sport saloon.

Maybe I'm going too deep, I hope I didn't confuse anyone and I probably just made myself look pretty stupid.

tl;dr
I like having the feeling that I'm riding a TRACK frame.

Once upon a time, road bicycles that were fitted with fixed hubs were no different than the bicycles that were fitted with internal hubs or those new derailleur gears... track ends were usually reserved for track bikes and a good number of coaster equipped bicycles while most of the rest got forward facing dropouts.

If you are looking to lay some some mileage and do what might be shorter tours things like carrying capacity, fenders, and a geometry that lends itself to riding with a load will be important.

I have ridden centuries on my '55 Lenton with panniers instead of my briefcase and have been exceedingly comfortable and some of that comes from higher volume tyres and a really comfortable saddle.

As an "all rounder" I have ridden this bike stripped and used it for some old school time trialling figuring that if guys could knock down a sub hour 40 on bikes like this in the 50's, there was no reason I could not do the same thing. It is a deceptively fast bicycle.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/reg2009c.JPG

My touring bike used to be a fixed gear and I also used it for riding long distances (fixed) and the only changes I made were to the drivetrain when it got her gears back... geometry is nearly identical to a Surly LHT which is essentially an old school touring frame.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...12cascade1.JPG

One idea would be to get a touring frame or a road frame that would allow things like a rack, panniers, and fenders and convert it to a fixed gear drive.

Here is what happened when I rode the EAI :

It was a very comfortable ride. The handling was wonderful. When I went chill pace with it, it was fun. When I tried to go fast, it was even more fun.


Surly :

It was a very comfortable ride. The handling was less responsive but fun. When I went chill pace with it, it was fun and comfortable. When I tried to go fast, it wasn't as fun as the EAI.

To its credit, the surly can fit 32's. You can go on dirt and stuff if that's your thing. It's also might comfortable with those bigger tires.