ink1373

so, no one seems to have addressed the issue of phils vs. IROs with "phil" bearings. is there something else about the hub that makes it superior besides the nice bearings? formula hubs are pretty darn nice looking, and a lot cheaper than phils.

techone

Holding the seal on should be a nearly invisible thin c-clip running along the outer edge. One tip of it should be angled so you can use a pin or a small screwdriver (like for the frames of eyeglasses) to ping it off, but dont lose it, youll need it to hold the seal on when you replace it.
And for replacement bearings, NMB is a great product, they ust got a bad name because they dont cost much and were labeled as generic, but are far superior to german or SKF bearings.

This guy, RockinRonF on a skateboarding forum I frequent, knows bearings...
https://www.californiabearing.com/index.htm
https://www.skullandbonesskateboards....ghlight=#18901
https://www.skullandbonesskateboards....1463&start=240

and supplies the best bearings ever!

techone

Does anybody else think its odd that alot of us have skateboarding backgrounds?

absntr

I remember NMB being the cheapest and lowest grade bearings you could buy back in the day for skating. The ones I used to get for skating were last minute replacements if a bearing would go bad in one of my wheels. Over the years I've tried a whole bunch (Lucky Industries - the green ones, SKF, Destructo, etc) but I always, always keep coming back to the Powell Swiss bearings. Like butter, easily opened for lubrication and lasted a long time. I'd love to put some of those in a hub.

absntr

Not really but I do notice the coincidence. I think riding a fix/ss has a similar subculture appeal that skating and other well, "extreme" sports have. In my mind, it's always felt like a natural progression, an evolution of sorts.

ostro

Its a tough issue to tackle, but there has to be some justification for forking out the cash


On another note, i rode on my NMB bearings (Phil Spec'd) bearings in my IRO hubs today. I felt like i was faster, but its probably becuase i want them to feel that way, they also feel really smooth, but i also want them to be that way. So its a test of time.

I remember the same for skate days, i tried a the whole spectrum of ABEC ratings. I think the quality is important on a helicopter or some kind of precision medical tool, but for bike hubs, i dont think we will notice much of a difference.

Rev.Chuck

Just for grins I pulled apart one of the new IRO hubs I got last week. It comes right apart with a 15 and 17mm cone wrench. The bearings pop out with a good tap to the axle and these bearings do not have a circlip holding the seal in(I don't see that much in bike stuff, just Chris King). The black seal will come right out with if you pry it up between the inner race and the seal. the tool needs to be pretty slim and pointy. I would leave the steel seal on the other side in, they are pretty easy to bend.
A 3/4 socket(19mm is the same) is perfect for tapping the bearing back in to the shell.

honduraz10

extreme sports huh-anyone else here kayak?
im talkin about creekin/rodeo kayakin not on a lake
maybe everyone kayaks. thatd be so cool

Tony Arms

I would give it a try. Worse case you won't be able to get the seal back on. And you will need to keep cleaning them or get new ones. Do you think there is a need for a bearing replacement Kit ?
I was thinking of tearing a couple of sets down and offering a bearing and axle kit. Also a hub body kit in case someone messes up the threads on their hub.

Tony

ostro

hey Tony,

I just want to tell you that i love the hubs, everyone has spoken very postiviely about them too; I have never heard anyone complain about the hubs. I wouldnt have even bothered to check them out myself if it wasnt for the squeak. I do some rain riding, wet conditions, and i clean my bike pretty regularly, so i think i could have potentially sped up the process. A bearing kit i could see a use for, i haven't ever trashed an axle personally, but i see the potential. A little pick (for removing seals), perhaps some of waterproof packing grease and maybe some of those nifty nuts all in one package. i

BostonFixed

Here's a little tip- an x-acto knife, or other knife with a VERY sharp point works well for removing those seals. Utility knife blades, etc.
A small sewing needle or drafting tack might work also. There are endless tools which will remove the seals.
Basically anything with a SHARP, fine point will take the seals out.

bostontrevor

I've never used it, but it seems like a dental pick would be perfect for this task.

Dunno, haven't serviced cartridge bearings since my skating days. Too poor to buy new ones, so you spend extra cash for the kind with the c-clip so you can regrease. Them was the days for sure.

Rev.Chuck

If you do mess up a seal, reinstall the bearing with the open side facing in.

Tony you could stock kits just to have but these bearings are easy to get local.

pgringo69

yes, there is something else about phil hubs. if you can't see it, you just don't know. for example, some of my good friends and i can almost always tell a taiwan made frame from 10+ ft away. the powder seems to lay differently on a taiwan frame even. i must say the iro hubs look taiwan or chinese...straightup. the taiwan or chinese stuff just has a certain look to it. it is rumoured that the raw materials are not up to par with some usa made stuff and that is part of why they have a different look. or you could say we can see the soul of the bike part. *shrug* i would run either iro or phil, and personally will probubly build my next wheelset with iro. a decent functional design is ok by me. BUT, i will only ride a usa made bmx frame unless i am trying to break the sucka.

quality ranking usually goes like this: usa, japan, europe, taiwan, china. ok, we can argue about the japan vs. europe thing.

have fun.

trespasser

a poor assumption does nothing good...

icithecat

I do not creek kayak but I own a kayak and my stomping ground is the Pacific Ocean. Exiting enough when the weather turns on you and you are 5 or more miles from wet land.

My intro to ss/fixed was not bmx, but rather being given a cheap Raleigh 5 speed with a simplex derailler when I was 14 and we moved to Botswana. The town had one paved road but miles of goat tracks through the bush. This area received on average eight inches of rain per year and so was pure sand. Amazingly flat, a hill was six feet. Within short order the derailler packed it in and I had a singlespeed. Later the freewheel packed it in and I had a fixed gear.
Destiny, what can I say.

RJOsprey

Seems to me the best steel bearings are about 10 millions of an inch from perfect balls but standard all ceramic sealed bearings or loose balls are accurrate to 5 millions of an inch. The ceramic bearings or balls don't rust or get magnetic, and if you go with the ceramics you can replace the sealed bearings and come out smoother then a $US 200 new hub. See bocabearings.com. Loose balls have an advantage only with an existing finely machined race are about $US 100 per hub and sealed with the steel race about $US 60 per hub. All ceramic bearings and race run about 10 x the price. So ceramics are better when compared to your steel race bearings.

redfooj

i actually sold my kayak to be able to afford my SS MTB. taking the mtb out for a spin is much easier than loading and hauling the kayak for a paddle

Kogswell

The early, pre-Formula, IRO hubs used dual seal, SKF bearings. There's no better bearing being used in bike hubs anywhere.

Those hubs start as cold forgings and they're CNC'd to add the details.

They started life as a model that was designed and rated by the manufacturer for downhill mountain biking. That's a fact that's often overlooked. They aren't track racing hubs. They're designed for ROUGH use.

I worked w/ that hub shop for 18 months to adapt them to the American fixed gear road market. My feeling was that American fixed gear enthusiasts were ready for serious hubs. Right?

We still sell them and they're available in 135 and now 120mm

Matthew Grimm / Designer
Kogswell Cycles

moxfyre

So how do you think the current Formula/IRO hubs compare to the old IRO ones? I've been very pleased with mine, but don't have much basis for comparison...

46x17

I race skateboards. And appart from the bearing the axles are very important. Many top downhill and slalom skateboard riders replace their stock axles with precision axles that make the bearings fit snug on the axles. (remember how your wheels always flop a little on axle). This "snugness" helps align the bearings properly which increases the speed measureably. The second thing that makes them fast is the precision of each part. The holes on my boards are CNC drilled, the boards them selves CNC cut. I have gone through an entire box of wheels to make sure I got the roundest four. There are downhill trucks where the hangers alone are $250. The differences are subtle but when you combine parts, often imperfections are amplified. Using the best, most precise stuff will result in an overall faster (measureable) and smoother (feeleable) and safer (at least when going 50mph on a skateboard) ride. Sure many people rip on not so fancy equipment and the rider matters the most, but using better equipment has never slowed anyone down.

Judah

Damnit Clayton, I clicked on this thread after seeing your name as the last poster and hoping that you had imparted some Greg-like wisdom in here.

"Precision parts for a precise ride", "Bearings are the ventricles in the heart of your bike", or something to that effect...

We need to get that dude online.

46x17

Not sure how much people would be into it. To me he is a hero! Here is one of his quotes:

... riding a fixed gear is a dance form that requires constant attention to its partner- the antithesis of auto pilot or cruise control.

And I'll humour you as well:
Remember dance - Sometimes you lead sometimes the bicycle - a constant flow back and forward - toghether. Don't struggle or wrestle, but flow with it and keep the rhythm. (This is best experienced when doing backwards circles )

Judah

Haha, yay!!

That guy is a hero. We need to get his phone number or satellite frequency or whatever he uses to communicate and invite him out for rides and beer.

46x17

Smoke signals?