kuf

It sucks to be in a group that fills up fast.
But worse than that are races that don't even have a Cat 4 women's race. I've seen a few lately. What, do they expect the women to race with Cat 5 men? People tell me 'well, upgrade then'. But you can't upgrade if you can't race.

kuf

I prefer oldies and youngin's

redal

I guess I'm an oldie!

zzzwillzzz

well the older terms were senior instead of elite and veteran instead of masters

Cleave

Hi,

All of you kids need a history lesson for perspective.

When I started racing, it was ABLA (Amateur Bicycle League of America). 12 and under were Midgets, then Juniors, Seniors, and Veterans. Veterans started at 40 and since I was 16 (racing age 17), I never thought I'd still be racing when I was 40 (let alone 50).

There were no age graded classes and no pros. There were a number of Cat 1/2/3 races though they were mostly 1/2 and separate Cat 3 and separate Cat 4 races. I did Cat 3 races in the late 1970s that had almost 200 riders.

Ah, the good old days.

twowheeltom

Sounds like the sport can be a little too rich in tradition sometimes. I'm new at this and sometimes I sign up for a race by a process of elimination (I'm pretty sure I'm not a junior, don't qualify for most of the categories by age, and I'm definitely not a woman , so I take what's left).

Spinboy

So let me get this straight, Seniors 5 would be an "all-ages" Cat 5 race? If that is the case, no wonder I am confused.

umd

That is correct. Anyone that holds a cat 5 license, or has no license (and must buy a 1-day license) can race in the "seniors 5" race. Juniors can race is juniors and seniors/elites races. Masters can race in masters and seniors/elites races. Women can race in womens and mens races on top of juniors/elite/masters distinction (note that women can race down a category or up an age group). Men 19-29 (or 19-34 at most races) are pretty much limited to the one race that is for their category. I know guys that will go and do 3 or 4 races at a single event, or women that will do the men's 3 as a warmup for their race.

Spinboy

Great. I am very new to this so that information is very helpful. Thanks.

redal

Kim Anderson, one of the High Road women did the women's race, men's 35+ and the Pro/1-2 men's race at Isla Vista. Pretty cool. Even cooler was that they were back to back to back and she was in the front 1/2 of the Pro/1-2 men's race at times and that race was fast.

kuf

What sucked about IV was that there was no women's cat 4!
That's right, a race in my backyard and I can't do it.
I could have technically done the 4/5 men's mix, but, um, that would have been a joke, as umd had a hard time staying on to that pace.
It's no fair that some people can do mulitple events, but I can't even do one.

kmc91011

She was in the 35+ at Ojai the next day too... Every time I looked up, she was ahead of me...

redal

There was a women's 4 the next day at Ojai. Did you race? There were 16 finishers listed. There was a women's 4 at Torrance, 13 in the field. Small fields. I know they don't always list all finishers, but in small fields it seems like they do. I've seen them list to 80 this year.
There are women's 4 categories at both races this weekend, so you have two chances to race. If the promoter at IV would have run a women's 1-4 category, I don't know how many category 4 women would have felt comfortable lining up in that field. You may have been better off in the men's 4, there were some tough women there. I know it's tough for women since the fields are usually combined or there is no women's 4, but at IV, that looked like a pretty full day. In defense of the promoter, I think they have to look at what fields they can sell entries for. I really don't see why they wouldn't have added the women 4s to the women's field. If the rule is the same as men's, I don't think you can have pros and 4s in the same race so that might be the answer. Sure they could have done away with the cruiser race, but I don't think the women's 4 category would have been happy with a 3 lap race either.

kuf

The Cat 4/5 men's race at IV was at least 26mph. And that was an average from someone who was dropped. That would have been a waste of an entry fee.
No, I didn't do Ojai. I don't like hills, and we would have had to leave super early.
CBR runs a women's Cat 4 only race, which I like. Running Cat 3 and Cat 4 women together is like running Cat 3 and Cat 4 men together. Basically, you still have in your race people who have beaten you multiple times. This is dicouraging for new women racers. I thank CBR for realizing this, and they seem to really care about women getting into racing, where USCF races treat us as afterthoughts.
It's a rule that to be a USCF club your group needs to host a race. A requirement for that should be that the race has a category for all riders. (Perhaps it is a rule, and the races I see with no Cat 4 women's category are just put on by groups that don't need the race to qualify for USCF.)

OTB

Ha ...another long-time rider here! My first license was ABLA also; 1974 I think. Your summary is pretty good, but you forgot "Intermediates", as in, the age grading went: Midget, Intermediate, Junior, then Senior, and then Veterans (40+ as you said). More quibbling... I recall that there were usually two senior races in NorCal where I started, cat 1/2 and cat 3/4. Sometimes there would be a further breakdown, but not always. You are correct about the Pros, with the exception of a few (J. Boyer, Mike Neel, etc.) there were none. Even as recently as when redal was young there weren't many pros (7-Eleven, Coors Light, etc.) as compared to the hundreds (??) there are today.

It was also different back then in that the junior fields were huge; not uncommon to have a field of 60-70 juniors in a local race of no particular consequence, and over 100 for big races. The single Veterans race, on the other hand, would have 10-15 riders, most of whom were either the Dad of a junior racing or husband of a woman racer. What a difference today! I bet the average age of a USCF rider is around 40.

That said, I don't really long too much for those old days, other than as nostalgia. Bikes work better now, cycling is more socially acceptable, more people are doing it, and it seems like we have a lot more racing opportunities. I guess the two things I do miss are: less traffic density and more road races. SoCal has lost some good ones in the last few decades.

umd

All those juniors from back then are masters now

Btw, I passed on Punchbowl and did ROCO around the lake instead.

Cleave

Hi OTB,

My first license was 1974 too. Yeah, there were a LOT more Juniors racing back then. Thanks for reminding me about the Intermediates. There weren't very many Midget racers but it was kind of cool that they were on bikes with 24" tubulars.

Masters 45+ races now are faster than Senior Cat. 3 races were back then.

Cleave

Hi,

The short version: I got there, started, got dropped, finished.

This was definitely a bit of an experiment and the results weren't that encouraging. I did two crits last Sunday, flew to Boston on Monday, got home late Thursday night, and didn't ride until I started warming up for today's race. My training has been going reasonably well, including my climbing. I guess a week of the bike right before a tough race is still not in the cards for me.

Things started well and I wasn't feeling too bad. Moved up into the top ten and thought that I might be OK. Unfortunately, I couldn't hold the pace of the bunch once things got serious. Got dropped just before the feed zone and ended up hooking up with a couple of other guys. We stayed together through the rest of the climb and through the downhill.

We started working together on the false flat after the descent but one of the guys surged and I couldn't hold on. Pretty much rode the rest of the race by myself until near the end of my second lap when the 35+ break and shattered field passed me as they were finishing their third lap.

Oh well, at least I finished. I'm pretty sure that I wasn't DFL.

TrevorInSoCal

Punch Bowl:

Ouch.

That sucked.

Was about mid-pack, midway up the climb, when a group went off the front right after the turn after the feed zone. Wasn't gonna be able to close that gap, so I tried to fall in with some chasers, and promptly got dropped. Caught back on, at the bottom of the descent, with a chase group, but got spit out the back of that group too.

Spent most of the rest of the race either out in the wind, in no-man's land, by myself, or in small groups of 3 - 5 riders.

Didn't stick around to check results, but I'm pretty certain I didn't even crack the top 20. The only thing that kept me from packing it in, and stopping at my truck before the climb on the last lap, was pride.

Did my first ever road race, as a V, at punch bowl. I pulled out 'cause I was seriously suffering, and thought the lead group, that dropped me, was at least 25 strong. Turned out it wasn't that big, and I was sitting in top 10 when I bailed. That makes the sting of quitting all that much worse.

I was nowhere near top 10 today, but I was at least gonna *finish* the thing. If nothing else it was a good workout, and judging by my performance, I obviously need more of those.

Guess that's what a new, long-distance, relationship, and a busy winter SAR season will do to your training. 4-days off the bike last week, couldn't have helped either.

Beginning to think maybe I should just write this season off. Or focus on late-season MTB races.

merckx89

My first DNF.
Raced punchbowl, felt great going into the race and fine during the first lap and a half (did the climb twice), but cresting the climb the second time with the leaders my legs gave out on me and seized up. Literally fell over on the side of the road and couldn't stand up for a minute or two. They finally eased up and I was able to turn around and pedal at about 3mph back to the feed zone where they continued to spasm for the next 30-45 minutes. Right leg is still stiff and for the life of me I can't figure out why. Wasn't exhausted, in fact, I've gone harder than that before, had plenty of water and salt so I don't think that was it and I really can't think of anything else that would have caused that severe of cramps. Heat and massage and hopefully I'll be able to walk tomorrow. If anyone has a background in kinesiology or something similar I would love to get some ideas as to what might have been the cause of the cramps. (I'm hoping not a pulled muscle) That's 3 races in a row now that I've messed something up.

dolophonic

welcome to the "Devils punchbowl" aint nothing easy going on there !

umd

Glad I passed It was hot enough here on the coast, I went on a typical ride and lost about 7 pounds.

jpconrad

+1, I did a nice ride down to the beach and back. I figured why should drive all that way and pay for all that gas just to get dropped immediately?

Perhaps next year...

Chucklehead

I also DNF'd punchbowl with a cramp. IN MY LEFT BUTT CHEEK. Got there a little late. My warm-up consisted of riding to the bottom of the finishing climb, turning around, and riding back to the start/finish.
Once we rolled, i didn't even bother trying to hang at the start of the climb, so i waited til i was warmed up and finally got going. caught lots of people, but obviously wasn't going to catch the pack. Eventually hooked up with several stragglers and built up a 7 or 8 man group that worked together really well, but we came apart over the climb on lap 2. This is when i saw merck89 riding slowly the other direction and just figured he flatted or mech'd.
Second time into the big headwind, i wiped my face and realized i was covered in salt, even with as much as i had been drinking. My oil light was flashing, and i knew it was going to be over soon. LUCKILY, just as i was crossing start/finish to begin the final lap, i got out of the saddle and WHAM, my butt cramped up on me. Couldn't have happened at a better time! I was able to get off the bike, but i couldn't sit down it was so painful. I'm just glad i wasn't out on the course like merckx89. That must have really sucked.
As i watched the time go by and the winner came across the line, i did the math and figured my group was only a few minutes back. Might have brought home a top 15-20 if my ass hadn't failed me, but whatever. Road racing just isn't my thing. I think i'll retire that part of my dream after San Luis Rey next week.

merckx89

You need to get someone to work it out for you.