open note to all helmet nazis...
08-10-09, 03:05 PM
#101
Whateverthehell
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It's about cheese-eating surrender monkeys!
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08-10-09, 03:06 PM
#102
Whateverthehell
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I think you've hit the nail on the head. The question is, was it wearing helmet?
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo daVinci
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08-10-09, 03:09 PM
#103
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Silly gravity haters.
The problem isn't falling so much as getting smacked into by cars. So the problem is momentum, or even more generally, force. We have to fight the right abstractions here.
The problem isn't falling so much as getting smacked into by cars. So the problem is momentum, or even more generally, force. We have to fight the right abstractions here.
08-10-09, 03:58 PM
#104
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Oh I know. Hence my righteous anger.
And this is why I'm talking *SEVERE* penalties. Like, you lose the car + spend time in prison (in which case you won't have to worry about the job that you're about to lose) + 2,000 hours of community service, etc. The legal system goes waaaaaay too easy on people.
And get more cars off the road. They kill far too many people.
And this is why I'm talking *SEVERE* penalties. Like, you lose the car + spend time in prison (in which case you won't have to worry about the job that you're about to lose) + 2,000 hours of community service, etc. The legal system goes waaaaaay too easy on people.
And get more cars off the road. They kill far too many people.
In LA, a second DUI carries mandatory jail time. However, as highlighted by a few celebrities' cases, the money or space isn't there to keep them - so they are released in a matter of hours or even minutes.
What I'm most surprised by is - how did I end up on this rant in a helmet thread?
08-10-09, 04:05 PM
#105
My bicycle is fixed
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^^ That doesn't address how easy it is to just take the car. Forever.
Plus, Drunk Driving, while obviously quite a large problem, is a only subset of my favorite point: get CARS off the roads. Operators over a wide range of sobriety levels kill kill kill with cars. And all this death that surrounds our auto-centric culture costs us hundreds of billions of dollars and more lives than wars.
Plus, Drunk Driving, while obviously quite a large problem, is a only subset of my favorite point: get CARS off the roads. Operators over a wide range of sobriety levels kill kill kill with cars. And all this death that surrounds our auto-centric culture costs us hundreds of billions of dollars and more lives than wars.
08-10-09, 04:07 PM
#106
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It's a good idea in theory, but the reality is tougher. Drunk driving arrests are, sadly, more common that you'd think. Especially here in California - if we were to start handing out prison terms to first time DUI's, that would mean a lot of money. (we don't have money for the prisoners we do have now.)
It's the same reason my students don't see the point in trying to get passing grades in their classes. We pass them on to the next grade level anyway.
And another +1 with Brian. Not only does taking the car not need any prison space, but it could possibly pay the legal system back.
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It's like riding a bicycle
It's like riding a bicycle
08-10-09, 04:18 PM
#108
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Similarly, driving is not a god-given right just because you turned 16. It mystifies me that we don't have regular skill tests for licensed drivers. Given that driving is probably the most dangerous activity that any of us will ever do, this shocks me. (Again, 1 in 130 Americans are injured in an automobile every year (around 2.5 million) The system is failing us miserably, especially cyclists.)
08-10-09, 05:08 PM
#113
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That is the sort of faulty logic that got us in this mess in the first place. When we sit around going "gee, I'd like to punish him but we just can't afford it", he gets off scott free and not only does that let him go do it again, but he tells the story to 10 of his drinking buddies who also become more careless. If we would just bite the bullet and pay for the stiff penalties for a while, the crimes will become less frequent and we won't need to pay for as much prison, or court cases, or police investigatios, or emergency services, or coroner's services, or or or.
.
.
Yeah, right - did they hire a whole new football team?
08-10-09, 05:17 PM
#114
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Plus 2000 hours community service for a first offense.
08-10-09, 05:32 PM
#115
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I don't think the argument of getting rid of cars is the answer. I would suggest that we extend the cash for clunkers to all large cars, trucks and SUV's. Small cars can't kill, everyone knows that. 
Plus we reap the benefits of going green.
Plus we reap the benefits of going green.
08-10-09, 05:32 PM
#116
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Hate to get involved in this but I think the only way to determine if helmets are effective would be to look at deaths on bikes not involving a car impact. I see a lot of knuckleheads that are riding bikes facing oncoming traffic and weaving all over the place. I have even seen them at night with no lights. I suspect they are the majority of the deaths.
Richard
Richard
08-10-09, 05:34 PM
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There is a US DOT chart of the last 13 years clearly provided.
From 1994-2006, 83%-97% of cycling deaths are non-helmeted riders.
2005 - no helmet-deaths->676 (86%)--helmet-deaths->77(10%) total bicycle deaths-->784
2006 - no helmet-deaths->730 (95%)--helmet-deaths->37(5%) total bicycle deaths-->770
From 1994-2006, 83%-97% of cycling deaths are non-helmeted riders.
2005 - no helmet-deaths->676 (86%)--helmet-deaths->77(10%) total bicycle deaths-->784
2006 - no helmet-deaths->730 (95%)--helmet-deaths->37(5%) total bicycle deaths-->770
The statistic they leave out, which is the only one that matters, is the RATE of serious injury or death between helmeted and non-helmeted riders in the same types of accidents.
Do you realize that if everyone wore helmets, 100% of serious injury and death of riders would be helmeted? Would you then call for the removal of helmets because they cause serious injury or death?
08-10-09, 05:38 PM
#118
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This is like saying that it's fine to leave all the murderers out on the streets --- we just have to wear protective clothing so that they can't hurt us.
Absurd!
08-10-09, 05:52 PM
#119
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Fine. I can live with being called a Helmet Advocate, but not anything more than that.
Helmets are what allow me to spell correctly, use correct grammar, and hopefully add something to the original post. I agree with lowlife1975 in that we're better served helping each other out with a kind word than with a shout while passing by that urges conformity. We all have anectdotal evidence (I've broken two snowboarding helmets and three bicycle helmets in crashes in the past 15 years while coming to a "sudden stop") that helmets help survivability, just like the early arguments for seat belts. Until someone does an actual study, or engages in an activity where the risk to themselves results in a decision to wear a helmet, live and let live.
I'd much rather shout at the people doing 25mph on a multi-use trail, blowing by families out for a walk, giving the rest of us a bad name. I'd much rather shout at a driver that nearly hits a group of cyclists while talking on his celll-phone while driving. I'd much rather see if anyone in this post so far has been wearing their helmet enough to find the spelling errors.
And I'd shout if those socks didn't match the streamers and saddle on the bike.
Helmets are what allow me to spell correctly, use correct grammar, and hopefully add something to the original post. I agree with lowlife1975 in that we're better served helping each other out with a kind word than with a shout while passing by that urges conformity. We all have anectdotal evidence (I've broken two snowboarding helmets and three bicycle helmets in crashes in the past 15 years while coming to a "sudden stop") that helmets help survivability, just like the early arguments for seat belts. Until someone does an actual study, or engages in an activity where the risk to themselves results in a decision to wear a helmet, live and let live.
I'd much rather shout at the people doing 25mph on a multi-use trail, blowing by families out for a walk, giving the rest of us a bad name. I'd much rather shout at a driver that nearly hits a group of cyclists while talking on his celll-phone while driving. I'd much rather see if anyone in this post so far has been wearing their helmet enough to find the spelling errors.
And I'd shout if those socks didn't match the streamers and saddle on the bike.
08-10-09, 06:06 PM
#120
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especially the old man on the colnago in shady canyon this morning (i really hope that you are a BF member).
please, please do not interrupt my pleasant weekend ride by shouting at me and my friend to "wear a helmet" as you are passing by. not only is it incredibly rude, but the holier-than-thou attitude is liable to get you a massive knuckle sandwich next time, seriously. i grew up abiding by the old adage that if you got nothing good to say, then don't say anything at all. why you don't comprehend this is beyond me. i also grew up learning that this adage was especially important when dealing with complete strangers b/c who knows what sort of short tempered crazy nut bags are out there.
the great helmet debate has been discussed to death and basically comes down to individual preference, unless you're racing or on a club or organized ride. individual choice... what a great concept, kind of like what this country was founded on? my not wearing a helmet has no bearing on you or your ride or safety whatsoever. you have no idea why i am making the choices that i am making so just shut the eff up. i know what those helmet nazis are going to say, "hey i am just looking out for your saftey." thanks but i already got a mom for that... and besides, what's next, are you going to start shouting at people for not wearing sunglasses, gloves, cycling shoes, etc? are you going to lecture the guy with the creaky brakes and out of true wheel b/c that is also a safety concern?
get over yourself my friend and think twice before you open your big mouth b/c one day someone is going to close it for you, senior citizen or not, b/c no one is above a good old fashioned ass whupping.
please, please do not interrupt my pleasant weekend ride by shouting at me and my friend to "wear a helmet" as you are passing by. not only is it incredibly rude, but the holier-than-thou attitude is liable to get you a massive knuckle sandwich next time, seriously. i grew up abiding by the old adage that if you got nothing good to say, then don't say anything at all. why you don't comprehend this is beyond me. i also grew up learning that this adage was especially important when dealing with complete strangers b/c who knows what sort of short tempered crazy nut bags are out there.
the great helmet debate has been discussed to death and basically comes down to individual preference, unless you're racing or on a club or organized ride. individual choice... what a great concept, kind of like what this country was founded on? my not wearing a helmet has no bearing on you or your ride or safety whatsoever. you have no idea why i am making the choices that i am making so just shut the eff up. i know what those helmet nazis are going to say, "hey i am just looking out for your saftey." thanks but i already got a mom for that... and besides, what's next, are you going to start shouting at people for not wearing sunglasses, gloves, cycling shoes, etc? are you going to lecture the guy with the creaky brakes and out of true wheel b/c that is also a safety concern?
get over yourself my friend and think twice before you open your big mouth b/c one day someone is going to close it for you, senior citizen or not, b/c no one is above a good old fashioned ass whupping.
08-10-09, 06:14 PM
#121
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Or a study that shows how nearly 2.5 million Americans will be injured in an automobile accident this year.
Or a study that shows how automobiles kill 700 cyclists in the US every year.
All those stats are available on the DOT and NHTSA web sites.
Enough with the ridiculous helmet talk already....
08-10-09, 06:14 PM
#122
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Fine. I can live with being called a Helmet Advocate, but not anything more than that.
Helmets are what allow me to spell correctly, use correct grammar, and hopefully add something to the original post. I agree with lowlife1975 in that we're better served helping each other out with a kind word than with a shout while passing by that urges conformity. We all have anectdotal evidence (I've broken two snowboarding helmets and three bicycle helmets in crashes in the past 15 years while coming to a "sudden stop") that helmets help survivability, just like the early arguments for seat belts. Until someone does an actual study, or engages in an activity where the risk to themselves results in a decision to wear a helmet, live and let live.
I'd much rather shout at the people doing 25mph on a multi-use trail, blowing by families out for a walk, giving the rest of us a bad name. I'd much rather shout at a driver that nearly hits a group of cyclists while talking on his celll-phone while driving. I'd much rather see if anyone in this post so far has been wearing their helmet enough to find the spelling errors.
And I'd shout if those socks didn't match the streamers and saddle on the bike.
Helmets are what allow me to spell correctly, use correct grammar, and hopefully add something to the original post. I agree with lowlife1975 in that we're better served helping each other out with a kind word than with a shout while passing by that urges conformity. We all have anectdotal evidence (I've broken two snowboarding helmets and three bicycle helmets in crashes in the past 15 years while coming to a "sudden stop") that helmets help survivability, just like the early arguments for seat belts. Until someone does an actual study, or engages in an activity where the risk to themselves results in a decision to wear a helmet, live and let live.
I'd much rather shout at the people doing 25mph on a multi-use trail, blowing by families out for a walk, giving the rest of us a bad name. I'd much rather shout at a driver that nearly hits a group of cyclists while talking on his celll-phone while driving. I'd much rather see if anyone in this post so far has been wearing their helmet enough to find the spelling errors.
And I'd shout if those socks didn't match the streamers and saddle on the bike.
08-10-09, 06:31 PM
#123
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You gave up your common law right to be an idiot as soon as you cash in on any government subsidized health care. The arguments you make like "it's a free country" are incomplete. It is a free country, but only because you do not have to accept government or employer health care. If your employer says you must, and you accept the job, then you are giving up your right to be an idiot on this issue. If you want to go do whatever the hell you want and cause injury to yourself, be my guest, but don't do it on my cent, and don't impression kids that see you do it either.
08-10-09, 06:53 PM
#124
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Hate to get involved in this but I think the only way to determine if helmets are effective would be to look at deaths on bikes not involving a car impact. I see a lot of knuckleheads that are riding bikes facing oncoming traffic and weaving all over the place. I have even seen them at night with no lights. I suspect they are the majority of the deaths.
Richard
Richard
yeah it was their direction, weaving and no lights that killed em...nothing involving an impact with a car. Dude...I gotta ask...are you wearing a helmet...like now?
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"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
08-10-09, 07:20 PM
#125
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You gave up your common law right to be an idiot as soon as you cash in on any government subsidized health care. The arguments you make like "it's a free country" are incomplete. It is a free country, but only because you do not have to accept government or employer health care. If your employer says you must, and you accept the job, then you are giving up your right to be an idiot on this issue. If you want to go do whatever the hell you want and cause injury to yourself, be my guest, but don't do it on my cent, and don't impression kids that see you do it either.
By that logic, wouldn't staying at home, training on a trainer instead of going into the street on a bicycle, cut the bicycle accident rate to 0%? Wouldn't that be cheaper for health care?