I didn't even know it had a serial number on it? Where do I look...

I can "rhapsodize " about the ride. It has an incredible ride! I normally ride high end frames so I'm not easily impressed. I'm impressed! If you buy a Calfee I feel pretty confident that you will be very happy. Not only with the bike but also with the backing and service from the company!

It's stamped into the titanium on the back side of the right rear drop-out / derailleur hanger.

Ours is TBC0220... which is to say #220.

The most fragile part of a carbon tandem is the paint job; just knocking one over that leaned up against a post or tree can fubar the finish. Beyond that, they're just like any other bike, perhaps even a bit more durable in that they don't dent and it takes a really hard knock to actually do any damage to the composite materials.

However, because it's a composite frame all but the most mangled frames can be fixed. Moreover, if a frame turns out to be a bit too whippy -- such as a frame originally built for a 260lb team that's bought by a 360lb team -- the frame can be reworked to add more material to beef it up. Now, to be fair, there's only one company that's well known for reworking busted carbon frames and that's Calfee. In fact, there's a photo somewhere on the net that shows a shop area where frames are queued up for repair and you'd be amazed as how many Scott, Orbea and other brand name frames were in there for repair.

Finally, Craig Calfee will tell you that when he has gone off into the wilderness he'll take along a small frame repair kit -- I'm guessing it's some sheets of carbon fabric, epoxy components, a swizzle stick and a Dixie cup -- so that he can make any field repairs that might come from a major shunt. If I recall correctly, the way he characterized it was short of any crash that sent the rider to a hospital or worse, he can't think of any crash damage that couldn't be field repaired to get yourself home. Now, while I suspect there's probably only one person riding around with a carbon field repair kit, it does underscore the repairability of a composite frame.

I was curious about the frame weight of the magnesium Paketa. They exhibited a lightweight bike at Rocky Mountain Bicycle Show.



According to Paketa, this frame was painted (actually, powdercoated), size Large, and weighed 5.26 lbs. or 2384 g.

So, my Large/Medium Dragonfly weighs 7.23 lbs, 3280 grams painted.

The Paketa weighs 896 grams, 1.98 lbs less.

So the Paketa weighs about the same as a Santana Beyond?

https://santanatandem.com/Bikes/Carbon07.html

"Utilizing two breakthrough technologies licensed from VyaTek Sports, Santana’s revolutionary Beyond welded carbon tandem frame weighs in at 5.5 pounds. The Beyond is not only 15–40% lighter than previous tandem frames built from carbon, titanium, or aluminum, it also establishes new standards for stiffness and comfort."

Or, about 1/2 the weight of my Calfee Tetra, 10.57 lbs.

Not that I would ever question the veracity of the publishers of the authoritative journal, Tandems & Tandeming, but I'd want to see the size of that frame, the scale certified, and an independent group of auditors monitor the weighing, before I believe a lateral-tubed Beyond weighs 5.5 lbs.

update: i've borrowed the santana "team" that belonged to dr bob breedlove, of paris-brest-paris and RAAM fame [he died during the 2005 RAAM when he was struck by a pick up truck in colorado].

it's awfully nice--much nicer than the cannondale i owned back in the late 80s-early 90s--so my stoker and i are going to ride the hell out of it until we have to return it.

i'll keep you posted. thanks ALL of you for your great input, ideas, and suggestions.

I thought I responded to this but I don't see it here. I wonder where it went?

My serial number is 0290, delivered in May 09

So, based on that... roughly 4 tandems a month or just under 50 a year for the period Dec '07 - May '09.

Mine delivered June 12, 2009, completed June 4 or 5 2009. TBC0307.

July 09 - SN# MSTB0310

Just been taking a look at the pictured Paketa components. Most of it looks nice, except the wheels which I think are a bit marginal for tandem use.

A dream bike would be a Calfee with Lightning cranksets, Edge 68mm clincher wheels and then your choice of high end groupset (Campy / Shimano) and fit components (Thomson / 3T / whatever). I think it would be very nice and will get one when the kids are grown up enough that my wife and I can get out together on it regularly.

Currently use our Trek T2000 aluminium tandem with lots of modifications. It works nicely but obviously an upgrade would be nice.

Make that ~5 a month or ~60 a year.

Hmmm. I'd venture a guess that Calfee has seen steady annual sales growth in the tandem market over the past few years... Nice trend line forming here.

Hmmm. July 09 - SN# MSTB0310 - July 08 - SN# MSTB0264 = 46

I think there were a couple of months there where they were having a hard time finding tubes.

I emailed Paketa to ask them about the components on the Paketa, and Dave replied. 22.84 lbs is pretty light.

It was probablly the TG-effect that seems to follow any of our heavily discussed tandem purchases...

My opinion is a little different than what you'll probably find in this community.

I've ridden many different brands of tandems. I have have almost a 100cm inseam and can visually deflect the bottom bracket on most frames because of the wattage I can put out (even on silly little 175 cranks).

I've ridden many Santana tandems and I find them to be horribly flexy and inefficient. I've never ridden a Santana titanium tandem, nor have I ridden their carbon isogrid bike. Both their aluminum and steel tandems are completely compromised by a lack of stiffness. Which is hilarious considering the effort they go to in their propaganda to detail how important stiffness in a frame is. I think at the end of the day they probably learned that comfort for the stoker is key. I would never recommend a Santana, and couldn't discourage people from their bikes more strongly (the steel and aluminum that I know about). I think you deal with stoker comfort by spec'ing a road thudbuster or a tamer parallelogram seatpost, not by compromising the frame.

Co-Motion makes a good tandem.

However, nothing comes close to the pure efficiency of a Cannondale tandem. Nothing. Since you're obviously serious about bikes I'd recommend that you borrow some tandems from other cyclists and spend some time in the saddle.

It is my impression in this community that many people feel the need to justify the expense of their purchase (after the fact). Having a flexy inefficient $6000 bike is not a good feeling. That doesn't make sense to me. Its like living in a pretend reality. I've had a stable full of pricy bikes that I didn't like, and I think its important to be honest about what a bike is, and isn't, more so than its important to rationalize or justify the sunk costs of a tandem purchase.

Being a tall cyclist with some considerable power I think I have a different perspective than most. The average five foot nothin' cyclist may not be able to see the differences in frame materials and design so clearly.

I'm a huge fan of Cannondales. Their 3.0 road frame was legendary as you would know. They don't get a lot of credit for having the lightest frame in the world at the time, that also set the benchmark for the stiffest frame ever tested on the Bicycling Magazine 'tarantula' jig. My recommendation to you (if money is an object) is to get an older Cannondale tandem from the '96-'99 era. You'll get an 1 1/8" head tube you can mount a carbon racing tandem fork into, and one of the stiffest most efficient tandems that isn't a custom titanium one. A lot of people love their Co-Motions, DaVinci Designs, Santanas, and even Trek and Burley bikes however in terms of pure efficiency and going fast, nothing compares to a Cannondale. They aren't the lightest tandem frames, but aside from a custom Calfee Tetra Tetra or something custom in titanium, its the fastest tandem you can buy for a team that can hammer. Its amazing how much wattage gets lost on the average 'performance' tandem with a flexy inefficient frame.

By no means should you consider an 'open' design frame. Sure they are lighter bikes, but the loss of efficiency more than accounts for the weight savings. Saving a pound on a 30-35lb race bike just isn't worth the loss of efficiency.

I would say ride as many bikes as you can. The differences will be more than evident and you'll have the knowledge to know what you want and why.

As for disc brakes for racing they unnecessarily add weight to the tandem, unjustifiably so. My tandem team is almost 600lbs, and I take brakes very very seriously. A good lightweight set of Paul Neo-retro brakes gives you more braking power than you could ever possibly need (enough to crush your rims, literally) and is incredibly lightweight compared to bloated V-brake and boat anchor disc setups. Consider running vintage brake levers like Campy Carbon record, using barend shifters, or downtube shifters mounted on Kelly Take-Offs or using Paul thumbies. You'll get better braking feel and performance than using integrated levers, and save weight too.

I like integrated shifting. I just sold my road bike with Ultegra 9 speed STI. It works. However, at the end of the day the brake levers just weren't as solid as dedicated brake levers, and integrated controls are heavier to boot. Something to think about.

The most important thing is to try different setups and different bikes.

There are a lot of people around here that are emotionally invested in advocating a bike they own (or want), or a particular setup, that have NEVER ridden anything else. Due to the expensive cost of tandems there just aren't a lot of 'em out there. Most people buy a tandem without spending so much as a hundred miles on different frame materials, and different makes. In my book that's insane.

I've got two Cannondale tandems. I couldn't recommend them more highly. Then again I love vintage Cannondales. I could ruin almost any lugged steel racing bike out there. Frame stiffness is a huge issue for me.

I've never had the privilege of riding a custom titanium Serrota that would have tubing appropriate for my 70 something cm frame size, nor have I ever ridden a Calfee Tetra Tetra, but I trust they could make one for me that would be stiff enough. I don't live in that tax bracket. However, from where I stand nothing comes close to a Cannondale, nothing.

If you can afford something exotic that is lighter, I'd be interested to see what you think comparing a Cannondale you pick up for $1450 off craigslist that you build up with race components and a race wheelset to anything you could buy custom (carbon, Ti, whatever). I'd wager the Cannondale more than holds its own.

You pedal a Cannondale and it goes forward. The tandems and vintage frames are veritable rocket bikes. You can't ride a Cannondale tandem and then ride almost anything else under six grand without the frame flex dominating the ride experience.

I'd be careful of newer Cannondale tandems. Cannondale road bikes 'optimized' their aluminum road bikes successively. Cannondale stopped making a 66cm road frame after CAAD5 because the lightened reworked design just couldn't support a frame size that big. I'm not sure if they did this with the tandem tubes on later bikes, but I would assume so. Someone here might know.

I just purchased a 27" (68.5cm) Cannondale touring frame from 1986. There are lighter bikes (pretty much anything) but I'm not going to deflect that bottom bracket (plus it more or less fits and I can't afford a Zinn Project Big). That's how I feel about Cannondale tandems.

Total disclosure almost every bike I own is a Cannondale: 3.0 Road frame, M2000 Mountain Bike, Two Cannondale Tandems, 27" Touring bike. I've mostly sold off everything else. I'm always looking for other bikes to buy, but nothing works for me like vintage Cannondales. They are just the ultimate bike for sheer stiffness, unrivaled strength, and lightness. You'll find lighter frames, but nothing as strong or as stiff.

I'm 375lbs, have a 100cm inseam (I'm 6'7") and obviously I'm a complete outlier, but that's my opinion. However, you should know that I formulated that opinion when I was a competitive basketball player and could barely keep weight around 215. Back in the day I really tried to buy a Bontrager steel mountain bike (Race or Race light). That's when my education on frames and flex began.

If I could afford custom Titanium or carbon I would have never sought out the C'dales...

I'd love to have a Zinn, Serotta, or Calfee (anything), but the 'dales work and aside from probably anything else on the market but those customs mentioned, outperform available alternatives (at any price).

Well, a team that weighs twice an average team certainly brings an interesting perspective. Your emphasis on frame stiffness is sound.

Just a quick update, Rue is back in business with a few new things to be released. Some personal stuff and she is back to building bikes. I wouldn't rule them out for a carbon bike. Their sub-forum at Fairwheel was reopened and they now regularly post on Facebook, among other places.

Their website still needs work.

As stated by bikerkim, I don't think frame stiffness is going to be a big issue in this situation.

I can tip the scales at 385 lbs. Well if I include the stoker, our bike, pedals, cages, computers, bag, etc.. Oh, I forgot we would have to include the doberman as well (he has to stay home because he doesn't have a seat, or thumbs).

Even as a light weight team, I can speak about the stiffness of a carbon frame. We put our tandems on the trainer in the winter. With a lateral frame aluminium Trek (which I feel is very stiff) I can see a visible deflection of the bottom bracket in that situation. However, with our daVinci (Calfee) I see virtually no deflection on a frame that does not have a lateral tube.

Another piece of Calfee production...

We received our carbon daVinci in early May this year. (Yes, TG-effect played a part, but we did not conform on the drive train.)

Serial number MSTBV0291, so it appears frames built for daVinci are included in the same numbering sequence.

So, Brent built your bike, but any new bikes will be made by Breanna?

please email me. i have what your looking for.
i would like to send pictures and show exactly what i have for sale.
i have 2 carbon tandems for sale. 1 is calfee and the other is a custom frame which has no top tube (may be good for your conditions). both riders on this bike were 5' 5'' to 5' 9''. the setup easily accommodates these heights. contact me and i will send a detail message of ALL the components.
the bikes weigh a little over 30lbs and have been setup to be ridden under 30 as well.
contact me at dom.kouki@gmail.com

[QUOTE=TandemGeek;9688117 In fact, it would be interesting to hear what serial number is on Ritterview's new Calfee or uspspro's Calfee just to get a feel for the production tempo at Calfee.
[/QUOTE]

Mine will be #337 to be delivered in December.

Brent is now Breanna, so yes to your question.