wheelinthai

Want to build a FAST light tourer

Toe overlap may be a problem with road bike, but rarely with gravel bike and cyclocross bike. I'm 5'7". #51 GT Grade Alloy 105 stock stem is 90mm, and I need 110mm stem. You should do well on this bike with stock 90mm stem.
Dont get hung up on 26" 1.50" tyres. My GT Grade Alloy 105 700c 28mm tyres is just as plush and cushioned as my chromo tourer with 26" 1.50" tyres. The GT Grade Alloy 105 can be equipped with rear rack, and it has disc brakes, 11 speed drive train. I would suggest replacing the standard crank 52-36, with compact crank 50-34. The GT Grade Alloy 105 is simply amazing.

djb

another factor to consider with diff frames is steering quickness (or lack thereof). I prefer a quicker steering bike, but what I think is fast steering may be another persons sluggish. I have always preferred faster steering and I know from commuting in a city all the time with potholes, debris and cars all over, having quick steering bikes is both nice and enjoyable for me. I have a friend who rides a Trek 520 with a big overbuilt front rack on it, plus Marathon Plus tires that weigh a lot and it steers like a truck to me, it would drive me up the wall as a daily rider (heck, even as a tourer I would find it just too darn slow in the steering dept)

I suspect as you ride a light road bike, you would find a LHT to be too slow in all the aspects, acceleration, steering, but this comes back to test rides being the only way to feel how a given bike feels.

also, its good to know that toe overlap is not a given from frame to frame, again , test rides....

ThermionicScott 

Yeah, typically tires around that size are slugs, but there are a few that roll really well, and the selection has improved in the last few years. This is what I run on that aforementioned MTB which generally hits mid-20s on my commute, and I've spun up into the mid-30s on occasion.



Compass sells an even speedier version of it for a price.

Craptacular8

Say, have you used these tires on surfaces other than paved? I'm currently using an older mtb as a light tourer, and have left the 2+ inch knobbies on it, mostly because they didn't seem much of a hindrance on pavement to me, at least not yet, and I do ride about 50% of the the time on a multi-use gravel trail that can contain some pretty chunky rock. I'd love a light fast rolling tire that could run at lower pressure, and still be able to do gravel etc without flats. Would you recommend these tire for that purpose.

ThermionicScott 

Yep! I take them on gravel and dirt all the time. (The alley access behind my house is getting worse and worse, and is basically a chunky gravel road now.)

FWIW, the bike and I together weigh about 190 lbs, and I air the tires up to 35 psi front, 40 psi rear. Could definitely go lower for off-road, but this is a good compromise for all-around riding.

Craptacular8

Great, thanks for the information, I've been having a lot of fun swapping stuff out on the new-to-me bike.

MichaelW

Toe clip overlap tends to be an issue on smaller rather than med sized bikes, ie for riders <5'3"
There are plenty of good cyclo-cross/tourers on the market in 700c; check them out before dismissing the class.
Modern alu frames are reliable and would only be a deal-breaker on an expedition frame.
Apart from LHT, I haven't seen any other such bikes with 26" wheels, even though it is a good concept.

Leebo

Fast is in the motor. 26" wheels won't help. Wider tires as well. Look at 650b?

bmike

These might prove to be fast and supple:

Compass Bicycles: 26" Tires

djb

in the market around here you don't see any 26in bikes offered other than the LHT or the Troll frame, and neither are particularly light but then really are designed to perform well with a crapload of stuff on them.

re 650, we had a 650 junior dropbar bike kicking around here for a while on loan, and when I asked about tires, tubes, the pickings were pretty scarce (in store). I recall getting a 26in. x 1in. tube that would work on the 650 whatever tires that were on that bike (probably 25mm). I had thought about getting it set up to work well for my short wife, but in the end found a xs 700 road bike that fit her well, and it avoided any of the 700/650 tires or tube mixups that could happen in our household, and the forementioned worry about being somewhere with a ruined tire and not being able to find any in bike stores due to the rareness of them.

grolby

I have to disagree. The LHT when unloaded or lightly loaded rides like a dump truck. It's really built for a full load. I wouldn't recommend the LHT in any case - it's pretty heavy for what twodownzero has in mind.

twodownzero - I'm your same height, so I can comment a bit on your toe overlap issue. It's going to make picking a good bike very difficult. If you want a bike without toe overlap, you basically have two choices:

1. Smaller wheels, or
2. Compromised handling.

With respect to the first item, you'll find that 26" wheel bikes that suit your needs are hard to come by. I would encourage you instead to stop worrying about toe overlap. It simply isn't a problem in actual practice, and the ways in which frames are designed to eliminate it cause other problems that will impact you a lot more than the toe overlap will. I think you should expand your search to 700C bikes. This will make your life a LOT easier.

bikemig 

Plush tires have more of an impact on whether a bike feels "stiff" than the frame. Typically touring bikes are built from a little thicker tubing than other road bikes.

If you want to talk about frame geometry, that's a whole other kettle of fish than the OP's question.

Insofar as what the OP wants, the LHT hits a lot of the OP's criteria in post no. 1

grolby

Every little bit helps. I've had a 26" LHT, so I'm not exactly talking out my butt, here. It's a harsh-riding bike, period. Tires matter, but "tires have more of an effect on ride quality" is pretty commonly cited around here to dismiss the idea that the frame matters. You've probably guessed that I disagree on that. The contribution of the frame to ride quality is important.

twodownzero

Test rides would be great. Unfortunately I don't know any shop that stocks bikes I could test ride--not even REI, which is 200+ miles from where I live. The first time I ride this bike will be when I'm done building it.

I don't "worry" about toe overlap, but if I have to save money for another year in order to get a bike that has the fit/geometry I want and smaller wheels so that there don't have to be geometry compromises to get it, I will. Smaller wheels are fine. I'm a smaller guy. I don't need to compromise geometry just to run 700C wheels. Besides, I already have a fast road bike that is ~17-18 pounds and runs 700C wheels. This bike should do something that one doesn't.

If a true touring bike is too heavy and dead to ride unloaded, perhaps I should consider building a Surly Stragler with 650B wheels. 650B wheels might be a problem for a loaded tourer, but they wouldn't be a problem for me. I have a 900 square foot garage and I have no issues with putting a spare tire or three in my shop in case I need it. As long as the chainstays are long enough to clear some panniers for my work stuff, I have no reservations at all building a lighter bike.

The chance of me going on a long, heavily loaded tour right now are pretty low. I would love to do something like that but I don't have that kind of vacation available. I understand that building any bike comes with tradeoffs/compromises though. My ride to work has very little elevation change and isn't too long, so although I do strongly desire to be able to carry my stuff on my bike rather than on my back and durability, I don't need a dump truck to ride to work!

I do think that if I were to take this bike with me on my RVing trips, that I would want it to be able to handle rough roads and gravel. Not MTB-roads, mountains, steep stuff, or anything like that, but even my local bike trails have ruts and gravel rough enough that it would be a joy to have that capability.

djb

sounds like the Straggler might be the right choice for you, especially with the 650s for the toe space. Like you say, to put aside an extra set of tires isnt a big thing, and the built straggler comes with 41mm tires, which is amply wide for fun riding on gravel roads and such. I ride 26 1.5s which are about 37mm I think and they are fine on gravel stuff, and depending on what sort of gravel and dirt, you can put more knobbly tires too and lower pressures and that would be fun as well.

stringsonbikes

How about a Salsa Vaya? The smaller sizes have 26" wheels.

twodownzero

My LBS does offer the Salsa Vaya and although it's a bit more expensive, it is certainly an option. The 440mm chainstays are closer to the Disc Trucker than the Straggler. I'm not a huge fan of the sloping top tube but I could deal with it. How well will panniers fit with a 410mm chainstay of the straggler? I say that because I wouldn't mind more lively handling, but I don't want to compromise away something that I might later want. I am not really all that concerned about 2-3 pounds of weight, but if the ride is truly dead, I have no issues with building a slightly lighter and better handling bike. The best tool is that which is built for the majority of one's uses, not the occasional use that may not be that important.

The Salsa Vaya as a complete bike doesn't have low enough gearing to be a loaded tourer, but as built, it's still overkill for what I'm doing and does offer the ability to go on a loaded tour if I do desire to do so. The frame is starting to get into a price range at which I could probably move toward a custom frame though, which, while I don't really want to spend $2500-3000, I could if I put off the complete build for a while, and if I did, I could probably get most of what I want.

What I really want is panniers for my stuff, durable, and aero (in that order). If a touring bike is overkill, and a road bike is not durable enough, what I need is something in-between.

LeeG

I don't get it. Once you put panniers on you're no longer quick. I have a 26" wheel 56cm LHT and it is a quick handling truck whereas the 700c version is a slow handling bus. With loaded panniers the handling is quick but the bike and I are not quick accelerating.
figure out the bb to front axle dimension you need to not have toe overlap and measure around. Ribmo 26"x 1.5 or Schwalbe 1.6 Supremes are plenty light.

Mike Ayling

Possibly outside your budget but have a look at this.

I love mine!

https://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/thornmercuryhires.pdf

Mike

twodownzero

Their Sherpa looks promising (although they must measure their frames differently, the reach seems long). Are they available in the US?

Also, the gear hub bikes seem like a great idea, just out of reach for me at this time. In a few years though, I'd seriously consider building such a bike.

grolby

I guess I don't quite follow? If you're not worried about it, why is it a big enough deal to make it so much harder to find a bike that will work? As I already said, I am also small - I'm your same height. 700C wheels work fine and don't require compromised geometry, so long as I don't insist on avoiding toe overlap at all costs. Obviously it's your bike and I'm not trying to talk you into anything, I'm just a little puzzled.

As far as actual bikes, I wouldn't recommend any of the Surlys for your intended use. They're so heavy and overbuilt, and with the budget you've stated you can get a livelier and lighter frame, even from another steel frame. I've had two Surlys, an LHT and a Cross-Check, and they're fine. Good build quality, good finish. But definitely heavier and harsher-riding than most alternatives, and for no benefit to a smaller rider who doesn't need a bike to be super stout. The VO and Soma bikes might be worth taking a closer look at. Keep in mind, too, that if you get a 650B bike, the outer diameter of a 38mm tire will be very similar to a 700x23 tire.

twodownzero

Is it your belief that the soma saga disc is significantly lighter and livelier than the disc trucker? Weight is not something they publish so if true, that is good to know.

niknak

The Saga will not be any better than the LHT. Both are designed for carrying heavy loads. The Saga uses a double oversize thick-walled top tube which will make the bike the opposite of lively. However all of the bikes you seem to have your eye on are designed more for loaded touring than light touring, so perhaps the Saga will be just the ticket.

fietsbob

Terry bikes Terry Bicycles | Terry Bikes | Georgena Terry Bicycles ..

twodownzero

Does anyone make a light touring bike with 650b or 26" wheels? The reason I've suggested the heavier bikes is because they seem to offer the mix of features I am looking for. I would actually prefer a lighter bike over a heavier one, all else equal. I don't want something that has a dead ride and is overkill. It does seem that many people choose to commute on cross bikes and gravel bikes.

The straggler 650b is a relatively new frame offering. Is it significantly lighter than the disc trucker? The geometry is quite different but it may build a faster bike.