No mostly albergues (pilgrim hostels).

I did notice. You seem to be a long time poster here so I assumed you understood sub-forum & OP topic context. I made & clarified my point (HTFU = mental toughness). I apologize that my mnemonic fell harshly on your ears(?). I stand by my point of view.

Touring? E bikes? Whatever works. I'm thinking they are really heavy and need to be plugged in on a regular basis? Can I plug it into a tree? I'm thinking shorter, urban trips are the only way these would work.

The OP posted about touring on e-bikes. I replied with mention to my relevant experience on e-bikes and went on to discuss the topic of the thread; touring and e-bikes, including my mention of a long range touring e-bike that I am building. That is, what I saw as, relevant.

You then stated that people using e-bikes need to HTFU. What you clearly do not understand is that you do not always know where people are coming from. Touring on that e-bike might be the milestone reward activity for years of HTFU'ing. Yes, I also feel that statement, which I have already made, is relevant to touring.

You need to understand that to people with disabilities, or even those who remember being excluded from sports activities (particularly in the US, with its elite sports problem), that "HTFU" comes of like shouting the "N" word. You say "HTFU" and the immediate response is "FU." Frankly, you need to find a better way to express yourself.

I see that, the range problem as the biggest impediment to e-bike touring. I can't remember if it was here, or in an e-bike specific forum, where someone mentioned wanting to use an e-bike for that final grind up to Crater Lake in Oregon. The problem there is that the climb is a long one and there is just no where nearby to charge.

In that sase, the final comments were along the lines of, he would either need to find a ways to charge, and there were essentially none, or forgo the e-assist on that final climb and just plan on grinding up it slowly. The current battery technologies just do not support many types of e-bike touring.

Myself, I was very interested an a particularly fuel cell technology that used petrol. However, it never seemed to go anywhere.

Hmmmm. My "HTFU" was not directed at anyone in particular (especially someone with a disability) and it was used as general hyperbolic rhetoric.

But using the word stupid in direct reference to my statement is "a better way to express yourself"

Thanks for the lesson in civility

Seems clear that you're not alone. But I can't say that means you're not an old fogey.

I encounter people daily who could be going places on bikes, but prefer to use a car. They are sometimes shocked to find that I don't generally use a car. Everyone makes their own transportation decisions, and presumably they make the decision they think is best for their circumstances. Gets a little messier when they assume that their decisions are best for other people's circumstances.

I've looked into e-bikes for commuting, but haven't bothered getting one, yet. It does seems like getting to work not covered in sweat might be nice, but I haven't done it. I've looked into e-bikes for touring. It would be nice to select my camping gear and clothing based on what was most comfortable instead of what packs lightest. But e-bikes don't have the range I'd want for touring, and you have to make sure you can recharge them every day. More aggravation than it's worth, in my opinion, and I like being self-propelled. But I know that's really an illusion. Almost any ride of length that I've done involves some other travel as well: car, bus, plane, boat, or train. It's tempting to come up with your own definitions on who's a "real" cyclist and who's not. And I'm not above making those judgments. But why are my choices better? Just because I enjoy them more, I suppose. My friend walked the Appalachian Trail, almost crossing the country south to north. Sounds fun in theory, but in reality I feel like I'd rather be biking. My sister's family crossed the country east-to-west, and back again in a car last summer. I know that's not how I'd want to do it, but then it wasn't my vacation. I didn't pursue biking because I wanted to fit someone else's ideal of the best way to travel. I did it because I enjoy it. If someone else is doing it in a way that's different than me, I just hope they're enjoying it, too. It's only wrong if their goals were to live up to your expectations, and, frankly, that sounds kind of wrong, too.

As for touring on E-bikes, if during trip planning, an e-bike is required due to medical/physical reasons, tried-and-tested history of challenges during the ride, and exhaustion of all other alternatives, then great as long as you ride within the rules of the road/paths. If it is just because you are lazy, don't want to plan, yet brag about how far and fast you can go on routes others spend weeks planning for and preparing for, you are not touring. You are (social media) bragging.

Philosophy of e-bikes below if interested. Otherwise tour related e-bike discussion above.

E-bikes (including E-assist) should be in the same category as motorcycles. The same way golfcarts and Electric Cars are in the same category as motorized cars.

Golf-carts are basically small E-cars. Generally, you need to have a special type of cart, license, or road to drive these outside of golf courses.

I do agree there is a net benefit to the local environment to get people out of fossil fuel cars on a daily basis, however, the infrequent-non-in-shape rider should not have the ability to go 15+ mph on the same paths as the elderly, disabled, and children.

When does human powered become not-so-human powered? When does the convenience of having a motor on a bike interfere with other road users and path users?

I know there are rules/regulations in WA (and other states) on what is classified as an ebike, how fast they can go, etc... however, I doubt they are enforced, and I have seen ebikes and ebike users which blatantly ignore these rules and brag about it.

I do agree there is a good place for E-bikes. i.e. Disabled/elderly to begin/continue riding. However, there needs to be more enforcement of regulations for putting a motor on something to limit the speed of these types of bikes. Similarly to how electric motorized golf carts, scooters, and electric-wheelchairs are regulated.

+1. Well stated, I agree 100%

OK, how is it you are "touring" on a new, light, efficient bike? Shouldn't you be on a 30 year old, 5 speed freewheel touring bike like me? Better yet, shouldn't we both be on a single speed? After all, all those extra gears do is allow you brag how far and fast you can go. A real cyclist wouldn't mess with such a mechanical advantage.

I know a LOT of motorists who consider that if you are on the road, you should be paying and on a registered vehicle. Only seems fair if we are going to start making up categories of licensing, we don't forget to include our chosen vehicles.

And why should the not-in-shape rider not be able to blow through traffic at greater than 15MPH, while the TdF wannabe can? Both are likely acting in an unsafe manner, that doesn't change just because one is solely human powered. At least the ebike rider has their head up watching what is in front of them.

There is a lot of hatred towards people because they don't choose the same vehicle as someone else. All the Dutch folks I saw scooting around on ebikes? Looked just as happy and content as I was. Why in the heck would I think it is stupid for them to be enjoying life how they see fit?

****

First, Golf carts are not treated the same as automobiles under most states laws. Second, e-bikes are not motorcycles.

There is some right in what you are saying; but it is mixed in with a lot of mis-conjecture, innuendo, and just plain errors. For one thing; any touring distance riding on an e-bike requires more, not less, panning. Range and recharge points need to be carefully accounted for. Second, the law does, in most states (again, the OP was posting about Spain, so dragging particular US states, like Washington, in just takes us afield), do have regulations in regard to speed.

It sounds like you have more have more prejudice than information; that is okay in the context of this thread. After all, the thread is about impressions, not facts, about e-bikes on tours. The reality that my impression is different than some others does not make it off topic (unless the topic is mutual high-fiving non e-bike tourers, or mutual insulting of e-bike tourers).

Well you need to understand, they are less manly than real cyclists. Touring is about being, and boasting about being, manly. (said with chest puffed out)


Or. . .

They're just cheating . . . (only if it were a race)

My only problem with E-bikes is that their range is usually pretty crappy given their weight.

If/when power storage improves enough I might actually consider one for quick(er) runs to the post office, but I suspect I'd end up ditching it like my motorcycle and moped.

Sorry if my post came over as harsh. Overall, I meant to say in the second half of my post is E-bikes need more enforcement of rules, similarly to all other motorized-vehicles. Putting a motor on any vehicle makes it a motorized-vehicle. Regardless if electric or fossil-fueled. WA was used as an example of where rules exist specifically for E-bikes, but are rarely enforced. Just because it has an overall look of a traditional bicycle, it is not.

However, I did not say golfcarts were automobiles. I also did not say E-bikes were motorcycles.

As I said in my post, "if during trip planning, an e-bike is required due to medical/physical reasons, tried-and-tested history of challenges during the ride, and exhaustion of all other alternatives, then great as long as you ride within the rules of the road/paths."

I agree, I do have a prejudice toward E-bikes being classified as "bicycles", but solely because they are motorized. I am ok with motorcycle tourers, car tourers, and E-bike tourers. Different strokes for different folks. But using an E-bike to rely on the motor as part-of the bike tour, makes it a "motorized-vehicle tour." This includes E-assist as well. There is no hiding that. Once you put a motor on vehicles, they are now "motorized-vehicles."

Agreed, the range is a problem, particularly for touring. My first idea was to carry a small generator for the nights I am not near a recharge point. I quickly wrote that off a s a stupid idea (there I am using that word again, sorry to all the people that feel that word is a little too close to home ). After all, I want quiet.

My new plan is solar charging. However, solar charging is slow. That leads me to putting a canopy of solar panel over my trike. I treat this as a plus as it keeps the sun off of me while touring. It still isn't done; but, as I mentioned before, based on power level experiments, at a constant recharge rate, with a full touring load,it should ride with about the same effort as does completely unloaded.

As far as the reaction to a solar powered e-assist touring trike; the people who have seen it (and it isn't done; so mostly they have seen the parts and various project stages) have been uniformly positive. I think it helps the positive reaction that people, who see me, can see that there is something, obviously, wrong.

When finished I really hope to be able to put down a lot of miles on my solar/e-trike. I have a particular trip planned for it that I expect to take a bit over a week.

eBike has MOTOR!

You're free to do whatever you want to do on your motorized-vehicle.

I have no hatred towards you or your vehicle.

My problem is when you claim its the same as a bicycle. IT HAS A MOTOR!

And yours has a lot of mechanical technology to make you go faster and further, heck, some have motors to power their derailleurs now! Bicycles come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and advantages to make all sorts of people happy. You still have to pedal on an ebike, all they do is assist. No pedal = no going forward. They're not bombing down the trail at 30MPH, they're not mopeds. If you have to pedal it to make it go, I'd say its a bike. If it gets people outside and enjoying life, I say it is a great thing!

I'd imagine quite a few over in the C&V area have a problem calling anything with plastic (at least that isn't delrin) and CF a bicycle, too, at least a "real" one

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I do exclusively ride a singlespeed for touring .


It is not a hatred, but more of trying to understand the acceptance of motorized-vehicles on traditionally non-motorized paths/routes/bikelanes. And the acceptance of E-bikes which exceed the state rules for being on said trails. The seemingly tolerance of unaware trail users suddenly being able to have a motor on MUPs behaving in a dangerous manner with many different users on the trail. Similarly how you call out people riding bikes breaking rules of the road.


As to who pays for roads... that is a whole different topic...

+1 with respect to hatred.

+1 re: bubble burst: My tour this summer will be on a fixed gear.

I couldnt care less if someone tours on an e-assist bike. Since I am fine with people touring in an RV, it would be pretty nuts of me to complain about an e-assist bike.

I ride weekly with a 69yo woman who has an upright hybrid and an e-assist recumbent trike. She uses the e-assist trike for hilly routes. Its great because she is still able to participate and she rides probably 80% of the route under her own power. She will use the e-assist trike on RAGBRAI this year, just like previous years and will complete what is about her 30th RAGBRAI.

No asterisk needed in my book. She will have ridden at least 1500mi by the end of the year, so subtract however many miles you want for the e-assist and she will still have ridden more miles than 97% of the population.

So she says she did entire RAGBRAI (without mentioning that she rode an e-assist bike) and then you meet another 69yo women that says she did entire RAGBRAI (100% human pedaling, unmentioned) is that the same thing?

+1... what is the difference riding a single speed compared to riding a 27 speed? Isn't the mechanical advantage practically the same using the gears as compared to getting 35% assistance from a motor that only gives you 35% extra torque as compared to whatever the actual torque you are putting onto the pedals...? Isn't gearing mechanical assistance that increases the amount of torque the person actually puts in by 5% or 35% or 100% or more? Would that be considered "cheating"? compared to anyone that only rides single speed? Only if one says one did it with a single speed I suspect...

It sure looks like a motorized bicycle and people ride it as such. I do see it as great for commuting but that's it. It's ludicrous to compare to a real 100%-human-powered-bicycle (aka: a bicycle).

Yes, Some E-Bikes ARE mopeds, or, are/can be ridden like mopeds... Those are NOT, E-Assist bicycles... They are E-Bikes, Masquerading as E-Assist, a TOTALLY different breed... E-Assist, a legal E-Assist... needs to be, MUST have to be pedalled, to get anywhere... And a good one like a BionX meters out the assist, you put 10 LBs of pressure onto the pedals you get 35% 3.5Lbs of assist, you put 1 Lbs of pressure onto the pedals you get 0.35Lbs of assist added to your pedalling effort... Sounds like/just like using the gears to do the same thing. Get a % of assist/increased torque per every gear...

EDIT; I don't blame anyone for misunderstanding what a LEGAL E-Assist bike is, even people who ride E-Bikes don't understand the difference sometimes... Probably because of N Americas lax rules, allowing E-Bikes like that one to masquerade as E-Assist bikes... JMO as I see it.

EDIT: 2 the true reason that bike is bought by people is even stated/mentioned, at about the 20 to 35 second mark, It can be used as a bicycle even tho it's more like a motorcycle... Shame, Shame, is all I can say...